The Interplay of Allyship, Ego, and Technology with Lauren B. Jones

Dane Groeneveld: Welcome to the Future of Teamwork podcast. My name's Dane Groeneveld, CEO of Huddle 3 Group. Today, I'm pleased to be welcoming Lauren Jones. Lauren is the founder of Leap Consulting. She's a podcast host of You Own the Experience, and also an author of Together We Rise, so some great things for us to be talking about today. Lauren, welcome onto the show.

Lauren Jones: Thank you so much for having me. This is exciting. I'm really excited to be here, so thank you for having me.

Dane Groeneveld: Me too. I've bumped into you a few times in the busy conference schedule over the last couple of months. I've loved watching the prominence of the book as well. But maybe for the benefit of myself and the listeners, you can give us a little bit more of your backstory, what's created your expertise, your passions in life, and brought you to where you are today.

Lauren Jones: I have been in the industry for 25 years, probably in every role imaginable. I mean, I started out as a temp fresh out of school, and then went on to be a recruiter and a salesperson, and then lead a sales team, lead a recruiting team, lead a region, worked for corporate, be an onsite, all of those things. About a decade ago, my career took a pivot. I was running a really successful region, and I had figured out at that time how to create some efficiencies leveraging the remedial technology that we had at our fingertips back in'11, 2011, right? I already had chat on my website, but I had a live recruiter sitting there chatting with a person. I had consolidated all my operations. I took VMS out of my retail locations, and I just figured out how to create some efficiencies, both through great process but also adding a spice of technology. As technology got a little more sophisticated, I was tapped on the shoulder to help make some buying decisions. That's where I built my first tech stack. When I did that, I became obsessed just with this idea that there was something that could be one source of truth, and bring an organization together. I mean, that just fascinated me that we could have one place to go. I've been driving towards this utopia that we're all driving towards this stem to stern offering that you just can plug in, and go.

Dane Groeneveld: Wouldn't that be nice?

Lauren Jones: Wouldn't that be nice? Isn't that the dream? All of my names and brand and all, I just have to plug it in, and then it just fires up, and it fills orders. Isn't that the dream? That's the utopia. But all kidding aside, I really became interested, fascinated by all of these different problems to solve for. Everybody's problems in every vertical were different, and that just continues to fascinate me. We love to solve problems, but we solve problems. I'm a technologist, and yet I still believe fundamentally that having good business processes is where it starts. So, I built my first tech stack, left that organization, went and built another one, which was probably my first organic consulting, but it wasn't consulting. I was in a full- time role. But if I go back, and I think about what I did, how I thought about it, how I had mapped it out, it was very much consulting. Left that organization. I went back, and then built a tech stack from a global perspective. That's where I got some insight into everything that was happening globally. Then I ended up being an early casualty of COVID- 19. I just decided at that point that I was done with corporate America. I don't love red tape or corporate bureaucracy. I stink at corporate politics. I don't really know how to be anybody else but myself, and it's exhausting trying to be somebody that you're not. So at that point, I was at this crossroads where I was like, " I want to be me. I want to be colorful. I want to solve problems, and I want to have fun doing it." So, I decided to open my own organization. I didn't know. I opened my firm on March 2nd of 2020.

Dane Groeneveld: Bold. Very bold.

Lauren Jones: I had no idea what was ahead of us. I mean, we knew at that point that there was a pandemic happening, but I don't think that we knew that the entire world was going to be shut down for two years. That was where the book started, and it all took off as the pandemic's happening. I opened my business. Executive forum was going to be on March 9th. So, I was like... I had 18 appointments. I mean, Dane, I was going to kill it.

Dane Groeneveld: Locked and loaded.

Lauren Jones: I was locked and loaded. I was like, " I'm coming in hot." Then the whole world shut down. I probably spent all of March crying in a corner if we're being real. I just was like, " What am I going to do?" The one time I have the courage to open up my home business, and there's a global pandemic. I mean, can you plan this stuff? Then systematically, I just picked myself up by my bootstraps, and I was like, " All right. No one was hiring a chief digital transformation officer, but everybody needed a fractional one."

Dane Groeneveld: Nope.

Lauren Jones: At that time, there was this panic happening of getting technology in, and finding a better way to do things, and oh my God, we have to digitize our onboarding process. There was this clamoring for expertise.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Lauren Jones: Our first year, once the end of April hit, I mean, it was guns a blazing. I replaced my corporate salary my first year, signed my first million dollar deal, and signed my first partnership.

Dane Groeneveld: Wow.

Lauren Jones: Then in our second year, we doubled revenue. As we come into our third year here in March, I mean, we're very close to tripling where we started or where we were last year. It's crazy.

Dane Groeneveld: That's great growth.

Lauren Jones: It's fantastic growth. It's terrifying. It's that I always say... I think I just did a post on it too. I wake up excited and terrified all inaudible.

Dane Groeneveld: I actually enjoyed that post.

Lauren Jones: There's something about having your own thing that you're growing. Now, it's not my own thing. There's four of us now. I have a project director. I brought Aaron Pittman on, and then we have some part- timers that help us with requirements and other small configuration projects and stuff like that. We're growing and solving problems for the industry. Those problems get more complex as we go, but I found a love for solving these problems, and doing it through a combination of process and tech. We're going to keep doing what we're doing.

Dane Groeneveld: That's really cool. It's a great story. I love the fact in your post that you shared this vulnerability to, " Oh, it's hard, and it is terrifying, but oh my gosh, is it rewarding?" The way that you framed it was like, " You guys can get out there and do it." It was a good empowering message the way I read it.

Lauren Jones: I want people to succeed. I'm mentoring a few women that are thinking about going out on their own. I'm particularly passionate about our female leaders, meeting more of those. There are more women that I'm encouraging to do this, but I do not want to paint this picture of, " You can come in, and it's so easy, because there have just been so many things that we've learned the hard way, and spent too much money on." I mean, problems that we know we can't solve, and yet we keep banging our head up against the wall. There are some things that require more coordination, but then some clients are willing to give. There are some things that we can solve, and there are some things that we can't, and we got to be okay with that. It's just learning all of those valuable lessons that takes time, and it takes a little bit of gumption and grit to take it to the finish line, but that same executive forum is how the lady leaders came together. It was such a pivotal event that never happened that changed the trajectory of so many lives. So, that is cool to me. inaudible.

Dane Groeneveld: I think I was up on a panel that SIA, so we ended up doing it digitally, but it wasn't half the experience. How did the lady leaders combine through that particular event?

Lauren Jones: We were all getting together to celebrate Joyce Russell, who's the author of her first book, Put a Cherry on Top, and a Life of Generosity and Leadership, I think is the full title if my memory stands. I've read it a few times. It's fantastic. Joyce is a Wealth of Knowledge. We were getting together to simply... There were some of us who knew each other, some of us who were acquaintances, and some of us that didn't know one another at all. Quite frankly, if I'm being honest, we've talked about this a number of times, had that dinner happened, we probably would've gotten together for dinner, kissed each other goodbye, and probably had fun, not talked for another six months.

Dane Groeneveld: Had fun.

Lauren Jones: We decided to do what everybody else was doing, get on Zoom, celebrate Joyce's book. Releasing a book in a pandemic, I mean, how do we rally around this woman, and help create some success? We rallied around her. We had a Zoom call, and then somebody, I think, said, " We should have a book club. This is pretty cool, getting to talk to the author."

Dane Groeneveld: So cool.

Lauren Jones: Not to be outdone, we're like, " Oh, a book club where we bring the author, female authors." Then it became this almost... We're competitive women. We got Heather Monahan, Gay Gaddis, Erica Keswin. I mean, we kept just one upping, Dr. Stephanie Johnson, who would show up to the lady leaders. Then we ended up doing yoga together and cooking lasagna together. We really created this fierce bond between the 15 of us remotely. Then we started... The lady leaders were my first three customers. We just started supporting each other, not just in these fun ways but in ways that changed my life. You talk about that first account that made it for leap, and that was one of the lady leaders. It's pretty wild to think about an event that never happened, and then to come out of this, and then the connection that we have today. I mean, I'd take a bullet for every one of those women. It's crazy.

Dane Groeneveld: It's interesting. We had Eric Curiel on our show a few episodes back, and he talks about accountability and teams. He says, " You're only an accountable team if you are solving problems together. Otherwise, getting together is just entertainment." What you just described there is a perfect example of, " Had we got together in person, it would've been entertainment. We would've celebrated, had fun, had a few drinks, congratulated." But the fact that you had these problems to solve, thanks to COVID, what a great team. I mean, the 15 lady leaders of the book club-

Lauren Jones: Oh my goodness. Yes.

Dane Groeneveld: It sounds like you all not only built a book, but you've reinforced and supported each other to go out and become bigger, better leaders, build businesses, drive change on a much wider scale.

Lauren Jones: We're really trying to help women and allies. Women and allies understand what some of the pitfalls of being a woman in leadership are today, and how we solve for those. We talk about topics like imposter syndrome and being an executive. I mean, there are so many things, confidence, all of these topics that we're tackling to help other women and other allies get better, do better, be better when you know better, this chase of continual improvement. We've had the pleasure of speaking on some pretty awesome stages this year, and sharing our stories. It's been nothing short of awesome.

Dane Groeneveld: I agree. This concept of allies and allyship, can you tell me a little bit more about how you're extending that through the book and through the club?

Lauren Jones: I mean, really, the concept of allyship is acceptance, right? We're talking about equality here. We're talking about representation. We're talking about like- minded goals. We're not so far off. It's really just about awareness. Now, I say we're not so far off, but let's be clear. Where we are today is not acceptable.

Dane Groeneveld: Correct.

Lauren Jones: We're at 1988 with women participating in the workforce. It'll take us close to 140 years, I think it's 136 to be specific, to find true wage equality representation, all of that if we remain at this pace. Something's got to be... That's part of what we're trying to do. Part of that is educating allies on how men are sitting at these in positions of power. So, how do you get other women, other representation, people of color, all of that? How do you help change the face of a board, where those decisions are being made, and things are being influenced? So, it's about inclusivity.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Lauren Jones: Allies are really just about helping you understand what we experience, whether it's inappropriate commentary or... Oh my goodness, pay equality is a huge one, but just understanding where we've been, the hill that we have to climb. I mean, I've been in a boardroom where I say one thing, and it gets totally mowed over, and then a man will say the same thing, and somebody's like, " That's a fantastic idea." An ally is somebody who's going to go, " Well, actually, that was Lauren's idea. She said it just 10 minutes ago."

Dane Groeneveld: Correct.

Lauren Jones: That's an ally, someone that's going to-

Dane Groeneveld: That's a great example.

Lauren Jones: ...that's going to shout those things out. That's what we're looking for is to inform, to educate, to help you understand what your part could be, whether it's improving diversity, equity, inclusion, all of those things.

Dane Groeneveld: No, that's a great example. I love that story of the person who stands up and says, " Hey, that was Lauren's idea," because that's a really clear, obvious way for people to take action, and it takes courage. But I think if you're intentional about it, if you go into a meeting knowing about it, it's not a big step.

Lauren Jones: It's not. It really isn't. Rob and I talk about this all the time, because he is such an amazing ally. He's been around all of us lady leaders, and we're intense. So, he's had a masterclass on being clear about your language and how you speak.

Dane Groeneveld: I saw a really good TED talk. In fact, I was driving back from Utah. You and I were talking about skiing in Utah earlier, driving back from Utah. My wife and I are playing these TED talks. It's this lady, and I'll find a way to include her name in the post when we finally publish this episode. She talks about the importance of gaming and coding for young girls, because she explains how a lot of this behavior is inherited and enforced upon young women. The way she explained it was, " Coding is great for young women, because the way to learn how to code is by breaking things. Yet, so many young girls are encouraged to be perfect or be precise from such an early age that the battle's half lost when they're entering the workforce, let alone having the good allies to stand up for them once they're there." She said, " Look, coding experiences for young girls is great because it allows them to realize that they can be bold, that they can break things, and still succeed." I think that message is really important too. So, if you think about the continuum, maybe there's the allyship once you're in the workplace, but what are the messaging, the micro messaging, the behaviors that we need to be driving with our daughters, our nieces, young women in schools to be starting to set that tone early as well?

Lauren Jones: The foundation is confidence. There's a great book, Joanna Gaines' You Are Who You Were Made to Be. I've bought a few copies of this book. It's around this hot air balloon, and there are these different ways that different people have of doing things, and yet they all still made this beautiful hot air balloon. They were all different. It's that type of there's so much value that comes from finding different ways to do things. It's that openness that we need in communication, and teams is they're... I mean. My gosh, you read the book Inclusify. I mean, we're talking 6X the results in a diverse team that get from a inaudible.

Dane Groeneveld: Massive bottom line impact.

Lauren Jones: Massive bottom line impact in diverse teams that are working together to solve problem. You have this move towards... I mean, some organizations have gone as far to remove job titles, and they're just working teams that are solving these big complex problems, but solving them as a hive or as... I think that while drastic, it's still very cool to see diverse teams working together to solve complex problems. The foundation of all of that though, all of that to go back and tie a bow around it, is confidence. Little girls out of the gate when we're overly confident, we're loud or boisterous or bossy, or the words that are associated with other terminologies that when men are confident, they're confident.

Dane Groeneveld: Correct.

Lauren Jones: What's another word for a confident man? Just a man. It's that type of thing. There's another book. The name is Escaping Me, but it's all data points around women in the workplace and really how it starts very, very young.

Dane Groeneveld: One of those data points I ran into the other day was that the average man will apply to a job if they meet 30% of the criteria of the job description, 30%, talk about overconfident. The average woman will only apply if they meet 80%. That's a scary data point.

Lauren Jones: That's a scary data point. Now, let me compliment that data, and frighten you with this other data point. 98% of job postings are written with masculine bias. So if a woman will only apply to things that she is 80%-

Dane Groeneveld: That's compounded.

Lauren Jones: ...that are applicable to her, that's compounded by the fact that these job postings don't even speak to her.

Dane Groeneveld: I love that line of thought, and I'm going to flip to technology. I love that you're a technologist. I'm not. I'm fascinated by technology, but I've never built a tech stack. I love the way that you explained it as it's solving lots of different problems. One of those problems, you just touched on bias in the job description, in the job advertisement. Technology's going to, I believe, play a much bigger role in solving some of these problems that we can't get out of the way of ourselves. Even with the best of intentions, we're doing a terrible job of it.

Lauren Jones: Sure.

Dane Groeneveld: Where are you seeing some exciting evidence of technology playing a role on the team to overcome these biases, or to improve access equity in the job process?

Lauren Jones: I mean, let's get specific. I mean, there's a tool like Get- Optimal that is super cool. Helping you rewrite, helping you look at all of your foundational evergreen jobs, and rewrite them removing bias. There are search tools now that can help remove anything having to do with age, any terminology that would give away gender, and any terminology that would give away level of education, or all of those types of things, ethnicity, anything that might give an indicator so that you're really looking at a person. I think the thing that still startles me, and I say this all the time, is that the resume was invented in 1482, and we're still not past that. So, until we're at a point where we've really digitized that process, I mean, really meaningfully digitized it, I still think that there's room for error, and the big question, I think, Amazon experienced, " Who's programming the AI?"

Dane Groeneveld: Yes, the AI.

Lauren Jones: Which Amazon experienced that in a really negative way, so it's being thoughtful. That is the whole purpose of inclusivity and diversity is thoughtfulness. Think about manners and etiquette. What is the foundation of etiquette? It's acceptance of another culture's traditions, and acceptance, acknowledgement, and respect for other people's traditions. I look at diversity, equity, and inclusion very much the same, but there needs to be thoughtful action behind it, but all of that on the technology side, there are some very cool things from AI to parsers to firms that will come in and help you rewrite those job descriptions that are really meaningful. Also, I mean, gosh, we did a webinar. I have this idea, I have this concept of what I call a mini stack, where you can put a collection of technologies together to solve a bigger problem. We brought together PandaLogic, Get- Optimal, and then HiringSolved. This is the way we look at it. The Get- Optimal will fix what's being put out there. PandaLogic will help where we distribute it-

Dane Groeneveld: It goes.

Lauren Jones: ...ensuring that it goes to diverse locations and diverse marketing opportunities. Then HiringSolved will help you consume that data, and then make the best, informed, diverse decision based on the incoming talent, and so this idea that we can get... Part of that... But let me tell you, it's a hill to climb, yet it was no small feat to get all of those technology experts together to get them to work together-

Dane Groeneveld: Play nice.

Lauren Jones: ... andplay nice, but here's the cool thing. There are partnerships building between those technologies now, which when I look at how much of an impact can I have on one industry, to me, that's making a difference-

Dane Groeneveld: I agree.

Lauren Jones: ... just getting thosethree technologies to talk, to work together, to integrate. I mean, how amazing is that that we can bring this human capital together, that as a team came up with is a really cool technology to solve a problem, and they're willing to collaborate with more teams to solve it even further, to take the next step? For me, one of my superpowers is I'm a connector. I just love doing that, and so to be able to be a part of that, I think, that is super meaningful to me.

Dane Groeneveld: It's funny the way you described that. I was talking to a good friend of mine who works at a large technology company. He was suggesting that in a large technology company where they've got all of this capability, there's a real bottleneck when it comes to vision and leadership. " Hey, we've got this tech. It could do all of these things, but we don't have leaders that are really exploring that, because everyone's just heads down surviving, playing the corporate game." You talked about that at the beginning as far as going out and starting your own consultancy. Maybe that superpower that you talked about connecting is actually a little bit more. Maybe it's helping create that vision, that awareness, that drive for companies, for technologies to come together and form a team. I'm intrigued by that. I think that's a big ecosystem play. I think sometimes there's a benefit in a stranger or an outsider coming in and creating a narrative for how people can work together towards a common goal, and not be that the age- old competitors that don't want to share or play nice, because they're focusing on their immediate objectives to get to the next raise or milestone or whatever that might be.

Lauren Jones: Yes, you're spot on that if you get the right teams together and the right groups together, who can... I did an article about ego. What I think it stands for is easing greatness out.

Dane Groeneveld: Wow.

Lauren Jones: I think that we let our egos get in the way. Somebody told me this one time. It was Lloyd inaudible. I'll never forget. He said, " You can accomplish anything in life as long as you don't care who gets credit."

Dane Groeneveld: It's sad but true.

Lauren Jones: Sad but true. That quote has always stuck with me, because it reminds me that I need to get out of myself, and think about the problem that we're trying to solve. When we talk about diversity, equity, and inclusion, it's not a problem. It's not something that needs to be solved. It's what we should expect. So, if we have come to expect this, how do we meet that expectation? Therein lies the, " How do we make this happen?" Ego gets in the way.

Dane Groeneveld: Big time. Big time.

Lauren Jones: Big time.

Dane Groeneveld: I think we're better at it now than we were 20 years ago. I remember 20 years ago, you wouldn't even speak to a competitor, where now I think there is more collaboration, coopetition, whatever you want to call it, but there's still a long way to go. Unfortunately, going back to your point earlier, quite often, it's the people who hold the power aren't allies. They're not trying to really shift the agenda. They're busy. They're overloaded doing what they're doing, and so they don't really have the time to look up and look around and think about what problems could be solved on the fringes, which is where the best innovation's going to happen.

Lauren Jones: It's so strange to me, because part of our process is we really want to understand who the organization is first. We want to understand your mission, your vision, your values. We'll go search for them. If we don't find them, we're going to ask about them, because that is so foundationally how you create your differentiators, and then those influence the technology that you would buy. I can't quite... No. I mean, I can. We're doing a much better job of getting agencies to understand that it's that work, that foundational visionary work that's so fundamentally important to helping make really good business decisions that reflect who you are. That is something that you would be surprised. You would probably be floored at how many agencies we talk to and we ask about mission and vision and values. Those are an afterthought.

Dane Groeneveld: No, I think every business, every segment's suffering through that right now. It's interesting the way that you raised the values, the purpose, the mission, the behaviors of a company, inform the persona of the company and the right technology for its customers and its candidates as well as its employees. I've never thought about that in that way, but it's a scorecard that you don't often see on the RRP. You don't really look at how that's being aligned, but it makes sense. I mean, the more I run this podcast, the more guests we have on the show, I'm always kicking myself after the show going, " Wow, that was so brilliant what they said." Often, it goes back to just trying to make this as simple and understandable as possible for the people who are part of your organization for your team, and aligning technology with purpose, values, mission makes total sense.

Lauren Jones: Yes. Simplicity is a gift that we stop giving ourselves, and that that's something... We try and drink simplicity every single day. Oftentimes, when a customer's coming to us saying, " Hey, we need this new technology," we're like, " Tell us what the status quo is today. Show us what it is." Oftentimes, I'd say three... Yes, I can say that with confidence. Three out of five of the last tech stack evaluations where we were coming in to do an entire potential overhaul, really come in, look at those mission, vision and values, look at the tech stack, where you want to go, where you want to be, what that gap is in between resources that you have to get there. Three out of five of them turned into optimization exercises. All of that to say once you buy it, you have to adopt it. That's our three pillars are build, change, adopt. What I see as the Achilles heel right now for all of this technology is adoption.

Dane Groeneveld: I agree.

Lauren Jones: Not just adoption, but real training. Going into some generic library in a configuration that looks nothing like yours creates a disconnect between your end user. I can't say enough. People need to know that it relates to them. It needs to be the way that people consume data today, which is not in 30- minute videos. It's in seven- minute videos or shorter microlearning.

Dane Groeneveld: 30 seconds, 60 seconds.

Lauren Jones: 30 seconds. " Show me how I get that done here and here and here." It's got to be relatable, and so all of it... There's one word that all of this can be solved with, and that's empathy, understanding, being empathetic of the job seeking process and how awful it is.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Lauren Jones: You're seeking out the acceptance of strangers with a piece of paper that was invented in 1482. I think that we forget the empathy of how hard it is to develop a product, empathy with how hard it is to build a business. If we can all, I don't know, have our batteries charged with empathy, we'll have different conversations that are more collaborative, are more team- like.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes. I like that a lot. Actually, taking it away from the business context if I think about DIY at home and YouTube, if I turn on a video, and it's 15 minutes, and the guy has the world's best tool set, and I'm sitting there with a hammer, a saw, and a screwdriver, I can't help. It doesn't me. I'm not going to stick in it.

Lauren Jones: Right.

Dane Groeneveld: But if it's a guy that looks like me, kind of awkward, hasn't got the best tools, and he is like, " Here's the quick way that I found to fix it," I'm all about it.

Lauren Jones: Yes. It's a three- minute video. You're like, " All day long, let me... Let me go subscribe to his channel, right?"

Dane Groeneveld: Totally.

Lauren Jones: That's what I'm talking about. Think about your end user, and think about the consumerization of our industry. We talk a lot about that. I think if we're talking about building teams, it's about awareness. Teams need to be aware that consumerization is now entered in the job market, the way that we respond at the response. Bots are flying off the shelves right now, because now there's this level of expectation that, " I go to your site, and I have a bot."

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Lauren Jones: Because when I go to Amazon, I have a bot. When I go to Best Buy, I have a bot. When I go here, I have... I go to the bank. I have a bot. I go to Verizon. We're consumers, and we spent two years at home consuming.

Dane Groeneveld: We got really stuck on it, didn't we?

Lauren Jones: We got really good at it.

Dane Groeneveld: It's funny, I was ordering food last night, and I got onto DoorDash. I started ordering it. Then I realized that I had the wrong address in there, because I'd ordered food for a friend. I wasn't able to change it quickly, so I jumped over to Uber Eats, and I bought it from Uber Eats. I feel that way about some of our recruiters in technology. If they can't quickly fix the problem, they find a workaround. It's pretty scary to think how many workarounds there are, because people have got so used to good technology that's just quick and simple and easy.

Lauren Jones: I can quantify it for you. I can tell you when there wasn't a good process, and I was in my corporate life, I had over a half a million dollars in ancillary workaround spent.

Dane Groeneveld: Wow. That's a lot.

Lauren Jones: Half a million dollars and people buying little product here and there on their credit cards, and expensing it across a global organization, a half a million dollars in just little 9. 99 a month and 10.99, 12.99, and for this little fix or that little fix, half a million dollars in what we call row spent. Ouch.

Dane Groeneveld: That hurts. Then just think about not only the lost dollars but the efficiency, the learning, the process, simplification. I mean, wow, that's a huge impact.

Lauren Jones: Where did my data go? That's the other thing that we don't think about are all of these ancillary conversations being had. Where does the data go? Where do I have record of that? I don't. That, I think, terrifies me more than anything probably because I'm a consummate control freak. I think everybody in our industry is, but I think that terrified me more than anything. I put some research behind it. We lost an average of 60,000 LinkedIn connections by not having one enterprise account, 60,000 a month because-

Dane Groeneveld: A month.

Lauren Jones: Put a 35% attrition on that, and all of those people with all of their own individual accounts. That's why that one central source of truth and buying intelligently has so much value to an organization, not just from an efficiency perspective, but from a profitability perspective. I'll take it one step further. Now, today, PE firms are coming in and acquiring firms. They are looking at your tech stack.

Dane Groeneveld: Oh yeah, they are.

Lauren Jones: They are looking at your business operation, and they are making buying decisions and valuation, determinations based on that. So, when you have not cared about something, it's going to be reflected in the valuation for your business.

Dane Groeneveld: I think you're absolutely right. I think so many firms of the past have relied on relationships, and that people are the biggest asset. It's not to say that the people aren't the biggest asset, but for a buyer coming in that's really looking to scale so they get a return on their investment, the only way they can safely rely on scalability is good technology, good processes. Great people's important, but if you can't scale those great people, you're stuck, aren't you?

Lauren Jones: You're stuck. You're stuck. That's why getting the team together to create a culture of change, change acceptance, change excitement, change champions, if you can create a team or an organization that they live and breathe and get excited about change, you will have an advantage over any other person that you come up against.

Dane Groeneveld: That's something I'd like to dig a little deeper on. I know when we were both together at the SIA gig economy, and Tim Sanders got up, and he was sharing the Toy Story evolution about how it nearly got canned, and they got this team together that just fought through all of these little problems, and just became really good at a cadence of problem- solving, that was clearly huge for I think it was Pixar at the time. But, how do you bring that environment of change, excitement, ability to a team when you're in there working with the tech stack optimization or new build?

Lauren Jones: It starts from the top, and so executive sponsorship is huge, having change be it aligning the ability to change to the overarching vision. That's an executive's job is to essentially break down the overarching vision to the pieces that people feel connected to. A manager's job or at least a leader's job is to break it down even further. What is that individual's part? When an individual feels ownership towards that meaningful north star, the likelihood of them being excited about all of these new things that might be coming in front of them, that's the... Simon Sinek always says start with why. The vision is the why, and then tying it back to each individual is where you can create these changed champions that are like, " Absolutely. It's a necessity that we get this tool. It's going to be a pain in the keyster to get it all rolled out and get it all implemented, but I'm super excited because we're working towards that, and that's going to help me work towards my personal goal of..." The what's in it for me, look, with as much ego that is still out there, the what's in it for me is still king.

Dane Groeneveld: It's a beast.

Lauren Jones: It's a beast.

Dane Groeneveld: If you harness the beast, then I think-

Lauren Jones: Harness the beast. Everybody wants to be an influencer. Everybody wants the easy button, and so harness that energy and that excitement by helping them see through to the end. That is usually where the fear of change comes in. I use this analogy all the time, because I'm terrified of bridges. I had a bad event on a bridge over water.

Dane Groeneveld: Oh gee.

Lauren Jones: It was over water. I passed out while I was driving on the Bay Bridge. It was scary. It was very scary. Back in 2015, I was having some cardiovascular issues or cardiac issues. Anyway, all of that really helped me understand what fear is about as I went through hypnotism and so many different strategies to get over this irrational fear, which was, really, it all had to do with trust, not trusting myself or my body to function the way that it should from one point of the bridge to the other point of the bridge, right? Creating trust is such a foundational part of creating this environment of change and collaboration. So, getting your changed champions excited about that is also about creating them trust that, and people fear what they don't know is coming next. So, when I would come to that pinnacle point of the bridge, and I couldn't see anything, I don't know why in my irrational mind I think the bridge is just going to melt in the middle of it, and there's no other slide to it, but it's not. It's about being able to show you the end of the route, show you the end of the bridge. Then the fears can subside, but that all starts with trust. There are so many layers to creating an environment that people really want to be in and are excited to be in.

Dane Groeneveld: Going back to your earlier point, which is still that really exciting me is this, if you can tie it into your purpose and your values, you're naturally going to build more trust. You've got to think, because people understand it. They can see the end of the bridge.

Lauren Jones: They see the end of the bridge. They can see the mission statement. It's everywhere on your website. One of the things that one of my former employers did really well, it was Select, when it was still Select, you used to get a little pin when you could recite the mission, the vision and the values.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Lauren Jones: You got this little gold pin. I would see it on somebody's lapel, and I'm like, " I got to have the pin." I would sit there and memorize so that when... It was really random as to how they would choose who got to recite them at these big meetings.

Dane Groeneveld: That's so cool.

Lauren Jones: So, they would just randomly choose somebody, and you'd get your gold pin to recite the mission, the vision and the value. Oh my god. I would just sit there every meeting waiting for my... Like, " What's somebody going to ask me?"

Dane Groeneveld: That's awesome early gamification right there.

Lauren Jones: Yes. It was just... It's those little... I created a training program one time where everybody got a little FAVA contacts to their signature when they completed their trainings, because everybody wanted flair. Everybody wanted the flair next to their name, and they got a little LinkedIn logo when they did the LinkedIn training, and a little Indeed logo. It went off like gangbusters, because we tuned in and we listened to what excited people, and what excited people was learning, but having a carrot at the end of it. It's just you got to... In order to... You got to seek to understand before you seek to be understood.

Dane Groeneveld: I agree. I agree. It's funny on the Sinek piece that you mentioned about start with the why. A good friend of mine always says he thinks Sinek's got it wrong. He thinks the why's really important. But if you start with the who, going back to your point about understanding the what's in it for me, and showing them the end of the bridge, if you start with the who, then it's going to be easier to tell them the why with the right language. He's not saying the why's not important. It's like, " How do you shape the why to the language of who's going to be impacted by the change or driving the change?"

Lauren Jones: Yes. Well, I have an entirely... I could have an entire podcast conversation on Sinek. There are things that I think he gets right, and then things where I think just privilege has been such a... We're not talking the same language here, buddy. I think he gets so many things right, but I think that there are points to challenge probably for every author.

Dane Groeneveld: There's variations.

Lauren Jones: For everyone.

Dane Groeneveld: Absolutely. No, this has been really cool, Lauren. I have learned a lot more about technology from a philosophy standpoint as well as D& I, which has been wonderful. I think if I summarize some of the points that we touched on, I loved that the fact that the teamwork, the Lady Leaders book club came together around solving problems. I think that's a great story for teamwork, and clearly that's a team that's achieving great things. Your story on allyship and that perfect example of standing up and saying, " Hey, that was Lauren's idea, not so- and- so's," that's a great call to action. The discussion around confidence in driving inclusivity in particular for women in their roles entering the workforce, the empathy that you touched on, particularly in how you look at technology to align with people and the values and behaviors that they're living by was massive. On that whole change piece, harnessing the beast, getting the what's in it for me, I think that's massive. So many good tips clearly that you've picked up from what you've deployed with customers.

Lauren Jones: I mean, like I said, we're having a good time. When it stops being a good time is when I'll stop doing it. But all kidding aside, no, we're having a good time. I think that we are a people business. We truly are. I mean, where else are you connecting great people with great jobs or great jobs with great people? This is just such a-

Dane Groeneveld: It's a buzz

Lauren Jones: ...fiercely people- driven industry. I think that we have to be... What I would ask for your listeners, for every listener is for thoughtfulness, and wake up. The practice that changed my life was a religious gratitude practice. I've taken it even further these days. It's not just what I'm grateful for, but what's gone right in the day. Because as an entrepreneur, man, a lot goes wrong, and that can tailspin you really quickly. Creating great teams, creating trust, creating all of the things that we've talked about is about creating connectedness. People want to be connected to something. Teams that are achieving great things feel connected. They feel connected to other people. They feel connected to the mission, and so how do you... That's the way that I want your listeners to look at this. How do you have a problem in front of you? How do you create it through connected practice, connected relationships?

Dane Groeneveld: I love that, connected practice.

Lauren Jones: That's what we try and do is we want to connect with the customer. We want to connect with one another. I was a solopreneur for the first year and a half, and so it's been a change for me to include other people, and just try and create connection and connection to our pillars, connection to the work that we do. I have a customer who has the best tagline, and this is probably the best way to leave you. It's called Make it Meaningful.

Dane Groeneveld: Make it meaningful.

Lauren Jones: Make it meaningful. When they came to me, and they're like, " This is our rebrand, sayhello. com. That tagline, make it meaningful." For me, I just was like-

Dane Groeneveld: It's so about connection, isn't it?

Lauren Jones: It's so about connection. I was like, " Just write them a check, whatever they want for that. That's amazing. Whoever came up with that is brilliant." Make it meaningful. If every interaction you can have in a day's time can be meaningful, well, that's our utopia in a human inaudible.

Dane Groeneveld: It is. I love that. That's a great point To end on. Lauren, if people want to find you to engage Leap Consulting to help with their business and tech stacks, or listen to the podcast, what are the best ways to find you, and engage your team or your content?

Lauren Jones: I am the goat leader on LinkedIn. There's a little goat by my name, and so yes, I'm Lauren Jones on LinkedIn, so you can always find me there. But if my InMail box has gotten too crazy, you can also go to lauren @ leapconsultingsolutions. com or www. leaconsultingsolutions. com, or find me on Twitter @ lbuffjones.

Dane Groeneveld: Awesome. Lauren, thanks so much for your time today. It's been a pleasure. I'm looking forward to taking some of these ideas back to my team for sure.

Lauren Jones: Awesome. Well, it has been a pleasure talking with you, Dane. Thank you so much for having me.

Dane Groeneveld: You bet.