Communities as Teams & Expanding Opportunities for Women with Reena Gupta

Dane Groeneveld: Welcome to the Future of Teamwork podcast. My name's Dane Groeneveld, CEO of HUDDL3 group. And today, I'm pleased to welcome Reena Gupta. Reena's the CEO and founder of Mom Relaunch, which is a great business that I've been following Reena closely in, and then also a newer venture with Wisdocity. Wisdocity, did I get that right?

Reena Gupta: Yes, absolutely. It's called Wisdocity from Wisdom City, combining the two words.

Dane Groeneveld: I like it, Wisdom City. That's very cool. Excellent. Well, Reena, maybe for the benefit of our listeners, you could give everyone a little bit more of a backstory about how you've come to be working in these really cool spaces around technology and helping moms return to work, and all of the great knowledge sharing and passion sharing that you're doing?

Reena Gupta: Sure, sure. So my professional career, I go back and start saying that it is kind of an interesting thing. When I was growing up in India and especially the family that I had, the girls were not allowed to have a career, and not much motivation for it. And I go back and say, " I wanted to have a career because I didn't want to have the life of my mom." Nothing wrong with it, but I wanted to have a career and identity of my own, and of course, an ability to earn my own financial... and have my own financial independent. So that's, in a nutshell, how I used to think, but never had an opportunity to even think about a career. Fortunately, I mean, we also say that if something is so passionate and if you really want to do it, the whole universe tries to make it happen. And the way it happened to me is I got married to someone who was absolutely on the same page with me, and very, very supportive. And I go back and make this emphasis always in my talk, talking about the importance of your life partner, who can make or break many things that you like to do. So for me, that was one of the turning points. So a lot of the credit goes to him for all the support and everything that he has taught me. And when I came here, it was just right after marriage. I came here, and I was fortunate enough to have a degree in computer science, which was, again... we call it as master's of computer applications. And that was also possible that I was able to do it in my small hometown, just because I don't have to travel or leave home and go for higher studies, because that wouldn't have been possible. So that course was provided that led me to where I am here. So I have a very interesting statement to make, is why I chose computer science. And I go back and say that a reason I chose computer science is because I used to see people working in an air conditioned office, when if they're working on computers at that time... I'm talking about'93, it was when I started my... So it's like that was like, " Oh, if I ever get a job, at least if I do computers, I'll get to sit in an air conditioned office." And I was sold.

Dane Groeneveld: That's wonderful.

Reena Gupta: I didn't have any clue what the career was, what computers is, what it is, I mean, thinking about in a small town at that point. But that couple of these decisions that we make in our life can really define how we are going to be who we are today. So these are some of the various turning points that I like to point out, getting married to the right person, going and having a study and degree that was the future, even though if I didn't know that could be the future. And after I came here getting married, I was again very fortunate to get a job very quickly into the IT industry as a software consultant. And I immediately knew how to become a consultant, knowing that the technology is where people are going to adopt. And that's how my interest of learning how to automate things, how to bring things, make things more efficient, more and more I started learning about it, the more and more it piqued my interest. And I specialized very deeply into learning different technologies. At that point, when I came here, I started my first project on access database. That access database was very cool at that time, and then cold fusion. And I was so, so, so passionate about learning Java that I tried changing some jobs to make sure that I get to work in Java. And in three years, I would say, a very quick jump on my career that I was able to become a chief technical architect for a startup at that time. I mean, again, all these things has been learning and steps for me, because everything that you do adds to your own profile and keeps shaping you. So this startup experience of how technology can impact the education, because we were building software for K- 12, and then how students' performance are being measured, how it is helping. At that time, not many education and things used to happen online. So we had created that infrastructure of schools, how it can scale, a lot of those things that were done. And bringing that interest into the education, using the technology, is one of the things that I think I bring to the table which summarizes what I'm trying to do. And in my own journey and working as a chief technical architect, then starting my own consulting company, staffing company, building a software for staffing company, selling that company, knowing how talent work, how talent industry works, how the skills of the people are, how they're learning, what they're learning, what is the best way to learn, there's so many things at every part of my life that I have done. And in my own companies, I have given many opportunities to women where we have provided the ability, not only in terms of infrastructure, but when... COVID didn't happen. Since 2002, I've been running my companies remotely. So I, being the CEO of the company, I've been running it remotely. And now, people are struggling how to do the remote work, whether we should do it or not do it. All these things have become ingrained in me, deep ingrained in me, that I don't even think about it. Giving the flexibility, giving the remote work options to women, all these things have been done and proven in my company. So when I sold my last company, I wanted to just spend a few years of my life completely devoted to community work. And I looked at myself and say, " What do I do?" Being an entrepreneur, I wanted to do something of my own. Even if it is community work, I wanted to do something of my own rather than being part of it. I mean, nothing wrong and being part of the big thing. But I really wanted to solve that challenge. And one of the challenges that was very apparent was women who are leaving the workforce, they are not getting a right platform to come back. So that's kind of a long story, but I wanted to give you a background so you know, why am I doing this? It is from the story of my childhood, where I've seen my own cousins, my own relatives who are really talented, but they're not given that opportunity. From the fact that I was very lucky that I was given that opportunity in one form or the other. And I didn't let go of that opportunity, a little bit of credit to myself also.

Dane Groeneveld: You took it. Yeah.

Reena Gupta: So I just wanted to give that opportunity in form of our service through Mom Relaunch platform. So we feel very fortunate that if I feel that whatever we are doing in terms of this opportunity, they are not only bringing financial independence and skilling and job to women, but the way it shapes a household, the way it shapes the economy, the way it shapes the society, there's so many things that comes along with it that is very fulfilling.

Dane Groeneveld: Oh, I agree. No, and I love the story. Every time we meet, I've always known you as a very curious and thoughtful leader, but I always hear a little bit more of the story, which is awesome. And luck is a big part of it, luck and life partners, because you have to see an opportunity, but then you need to be lucky enough to get it and then grab a hold of it.

Reena Gupta: Absolutely.

Dane Groeneveld: And like you said, having the right life partner means that maybe you can turn a bit more of that luck into traction, into progress.

Reena Gupta: Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, again, no matter how talented you are, and if you're not getting the support from your own family, your own passion somehow, somewhere goes below. That motivation is not there, and then it does not break. Maybe you're fighting and you're doing those things, and it sucks up your energy that you could apply positively on the other side. So I think that I'm very, very lucky in that I don't have to worry too much on that end.

Dane Groeneveld: No, that's cool. So when you talked about doing the local computer science program at university, you mentioned it had to be local. Was that because you still had responsibilities in the household supporting family?

Reena Gupta: No, no, no. Interestingly, my childhood was very unique in a way that we grew up in a joint family system. And that joint family system, for people and audience to understand, is we have a big house where many people, cousins and uncles and aunts, we are all living together under one roof. There are different ways to structure it. For us, it was like we have four different corners of the house, and people in one corner, and we are learning from each other, we are agreed to disagree. And all those things happen in that, but at the same time, there is a sense of unity, this sense that if anything goes wrong with someone, somebody has their back, right?

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Reena Gupta: Of course, disagreements happen everywhere. But I grew up in a household of 21 cousins. Can you imagine that?

Dane Groeneveld: Wow. How cool.

Reena Gupta: And it's like we were a community in our own self. We don't have to worry too much. We have from toddler to 20- year- old. And somebody's teaching someone how to cook and how to sew and how to do your science project. And it was fun, it was fun. And our household was not like I had responsibility, because in India, we used to have people who used to come and work also for our household help. So none of those responsibility was there, as such. Our only responsibility was you continue to study till you get married, and do whatever you want and what your husband and family allows. So that's kind of all it was. And as I said, I was super, super lucky to be able to do something that can eventually result in the career that I have. And I was not allowed to go outside my local town, because we were not supposed to stay in a hostel. We were not supposed to stay in ... a hostel is like a dorm or go to college. So that's kind of it, in a nutshell. I mean, you just use the resources you have, is what I would say is how it was presented to us.

Dane Groeneveld: But that's a fascinating part of the story. Again, I'm still learning the... You talked about it earlier, we were saying that you're an active community member. But it's probably because you had such a good experience of how community can work to the betterment of all the community members.

Reena Gupta: Oh, my God. Yeah. The book that I wrote is The Rising Tide Lift All Boat. That's exactly what I have experienced in my childhood. That's exactly what I like to bring to. And if time permits, I will share what I've been doing in the community as well. But there is nothing better than watching and caring and sharing with each other and being supportive. I mean, that is the biggest thing that I see. I have personally moved from a culture of we to me, because now it's so individualistic. That is our closest analogy I can do.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah, that really is interesting. And I think when you consider joy and happiness in life, so often it's attached... When people are interviewed at their end of their lives, they tend to say, " Hey, the most special moments, the proudest achievements, they're all to do with the we. It's all about what we achieved as a family, as a team, as a community." And again, there's a real muscle memory there, which no doubt has seeded a lot of your curiosity and sharing nature there. Yeah, it is fascinating. When you think about that shift from we to me, was that immediate? Was that as soon as you moved to the US and away from that joint family system, as a newly married professional?

Reena Gupta: Yes. Very interestingly, though, even the family structure in India from my parents' side was a joint family. And I got married where my husband was just a brother and a sister. And right after marriage, I went to a house where only his parents were there, and that's it. It's like for two months I stayed there, and then I come here, and then it's not the same culture. So for me, it was an absolutely 180 degree shift. And it took me some time to understand, it took me some time to adjust to it. But just my personality, I try to look for, what am I learning in this? As you mentioned, I have a little curiosity of why this is working and the way it is working, and how it can be implemented in other parts. So we all know there's two sides of every coin. And it's not that one side is always right, one side is always wrong. It's just like how to make both sides work. And I have that... I won't call it just as a skill, but a curious mind to be looking into, " Oh, what is making this work?" So when I came here, I realized what are the good things about being into an individualistic society, how it really created and gave me space and time to develop myself as an individual, which I was kind of missing. And it was kind of being lost in the crowd in there, is like, " Oh, you will get this opportunity if 10 other people agree to it." I don't have to worry about that here. My husband and I, we decide on it. See? So there is a pros and cons for everything. We just as human being we just try to say, "Are you right, or are you wrong?" It could be just look for the good things in both, and just make it work that works for you. So I think I'm very, very fortunate to be able to experience both sides. That experience has given me a very unique ability to understand and create a path, that I don't have to forgive my space and my individuality. But at the same time, I'm able to work in a so- called teamwork...

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah, it is.

Reena Gupta: ... and make it efficient, make it effective, make it work. Not easy to make everybody happy all the time. But even if you are in a good positive side of the percentage that people are in majority good with that, I think that's a good way, too. So I think I having that experience in both environment is very critical.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah, yeah. No, I agree. And I guess having the larger community team experience earlier in life probably gave you a bit more aptitude, experience for dealing with problems in groups rather than starting out life as an individual.

Reena Gupta: Yes.

Dane Groeneveld: So you probably had a little bit more perhaps patience, perhaps voice. You got to try it out.

Reena Gupta: I would say if I summarize what I learned from my community living experience is acceptance, accepting people that.

Dane Groeneveld: Acceptance, that's an interesting word.

Reena Gupta: Yeah, accepting that it doesn't matter if you are not agreeing with me. And it's okay not to agree, but tell me why you're not agreeing. And if I'm not agreeing, at least I can give you my opinion as well. And I don't expect you to agree with me, but at least I know that I've communicated. So that acceptance is extremely important. And I think that is where we are missing the point here. If you look into it, at some point we get so hell- bent on trying to express ourselves so much and expect the other person to understand and agree with us. It's not needed. You just express. Whether the other person is going to agree or not, it's their decision. They are going to look at it from their lens. So my community living has... when I say" community living," I call it as a joint family, but for the sake of your audience, I'm talking about community, because it was a community living. If somebody is not feeling well, they get food from the other part of the family, they get support, they get love, they get all those things. So it is so much that we never felt alone. You know what I'm saying?

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Reena Gupta: Right now there's so much, I would say, mental problem is because people feel that they're alone. They don't have anyone that they can go and talk to. They don't have that support system that they're looking for. So, that that part has given me that sense. It's like I don't have to feel alone anytime. So that acceptance is very important, Dane, in terms of working as a team. First accept, and then only you will be able to make anything, good or bad decision. and you are struggling with acceptance of it, then it won't happen.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah. And we talk a lot about this whole theme of belonging, particularly from a diversity, equity, inclusion standpoint. And belonging isn't meaning that we all like the same things and agree with the same ideas, philosophies, politics. It's more that we're willing to accept each other for who we are, and we appreciate each other.

Reena Gupta: Absolutely, yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: So that's very interesting. How does that translate that acceptance, that early experience? I know you went into consulting and had your own staffing business built, Target Recruit, but when you think about Mom Relaunch right now, what are the common threads that you're pulling out of your early life career into helping these big companies find ways to meaningfully bring moms back into work?

Reena Gupta: So with Mom Relaunch, there is a little different approach we take. When we bring moms into our program, we not only teach them life work skills but also called life skills. And the first thing we teach in our life skills is how to bring your family on the same page. And it seems pretty simple, but trust me, it is so difficult for women to let go of ... And it's both ways. It's difficult for women to let go of the tasks and duties that they were doing, that most of the time women take break because of kids. So that the fact that, " I'm leaving my kid, I'm doing something else, not taking care," a lot of those feelings and emotions are there. But if you bring everybody and ask your kid, " Hey, what would you like me to do? How do you want the things to change?" ... Because trust me, when people and moms are coming back, their family think, " Mom has 40 hours extra from somewhere, they will come and work, but nothing will change in the house." That doesn't happen. And that leads to the frustration. That leads to so many families breaking, that while I'm working with Mom Relaunch, I have my concerns that, are we creating an environment where we are leaving men and family behind, that they are not getting up to speed as fast as women and they're not learning? And at some point, families are not being together is going to be disastrous for the society, right?

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah, yeah.

Reena Gupta: It is already showing up into how alone kids feel, how lonely they feel, how they ... instead of having that family bonding. But if the family's together and they're all fighting and they're saying, " You didn't do this, you didn't do this" ... So, that's a life skill. That's the first thing we tell moms to come in our program is, " Make sure your family knows that you are putting your time here." Somebody else has to step up and do her work. Somebody has to bring that all together. So creating that family plan is really important. And now moms, when they're doing it, they know that they don't have to sweat on making sure every day who cooks the dinner every day, because they have a plan for it, right?

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah, yeah.

Reena Gupta: So that is very important in terms of... And it goes back to my community thing. You cannot do things all by yourself. You have to work. Your family's a team. So bringing your team along with you when you're trying to get back to the work, if you are able to do that, then we also go back and teach that individualistic thing that I have learned from being in the Salesforce ecosystem, is creating a vision for yourself. There's a acronym that I follow, which is a process I learned at Salesforce, called V2MOM, which is vision, values, methods, obstacles and measures. And you create it for yourself. And I talk about that in my own book. And that's another thing we teach moms. It's like, " Don't come to us and say, 'I'm going to be a Salesforce admin.' We want you to be a whole person when you're going back, is you should know what your vision is; not today from five years from now, 10 years from now, where do you want to see yourself?" And it's not an easy exercise because they don't-

Dane Groeneveld: That's tough.

Reena Gupta: It's extremely tough, extremely tough in terms of how they see themselves and how they bring their family to the table. So these are a couple of things... bringing the individualistic side of, " I know what my vision is. And how do I bring my family and my community together," is where I glue my two sides of the coin together and make that coin. So that's how my thought process is.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah, that's really neat. And you mentioned Salesforce there. I know you've done a lot of work in the Salesforce ecosystem. When you bring that mom in and you help build that plan for the family and help build their vision for themselves, how have you found that finding the right work environment makes a difference to that mom getting back into the workforce, feeling part of the team really starting to grow and expand?

Reena Gupta: Absolutely. Yeah, so when I started Mom Relaunch, for me it was a very natural thing, is I know this ecosystem so well. I know the company. As a company, Salesforce is very supportive of women talent, as well as there's so many initiatives. So it was a no- brainer for me to start and experiment the concept of Mom Relaunch in Salesforce. Now we have become go- to company for people who want to get back into Salesforce. We are one of the workforce development partners that are being recognized by Salesforce, and people come to us. So in terms of picking the right environment, when we started, we used to get moms who really wanted to go there. So it wasn't so much convincing them that it is a right platform, it is just preparing them. And it's still, I would say, still a lot of people come to us because of Salesforce, because we are getting deeper and deeper into that. But we are also branching out to skills like IBM, skills like data science, skills like project management or QA automation, a lot of those things. So when women come to our program, we start with a career assessment. That career assessment, we just listen to them just like one- on- one like this and in a group setting because I believe someone else might have some interesting ideas while we are talking. And we give them an action plan based on what we think is the right approach and career for them. And that is the place where we say, " Yes, you should come to Salesforce, or you come to do this, or go another path, or go to IBM, and other things." So that is where we add that value, and that career assessment is extremely critical step for us.

Dane Groeneveld: That's neat. So the career assessment, it's a team activity, because you've got some Mom Relaunch people. Have you got people that have come through your program, or is it... like who else is around the table?

Reena Gupta: So as a career assessment, we have some people who are active current members so that they can share their experience. And everyone who sign up, we bring them as a group. So it could be 10 people, it could be 20 people, everybody coming for that. So they're the people going through that. And we make them a statement is like, " Just share what you feel comfortable with." But this also opens up a place, a safe zone for them to be vulnerable and say, " This is my challenge, this is exactly what I'm facing." And somebody else will empathize and say, " Hey, this is how I have worked with it." And we also try to invite some industry experts into those sessions. So if we have career assessment on IBM, we invite an IBM expert to say, " Is this the right path for them?"

Dane Groeneveld: That's neat.

Reena Gupta: And then of course, our HR team, our team are there who can also follow up and make sure that they have all the questions answered. An interesting thing about moms team is a program that is run by moms for the moms. So everybody who's in our team working, we call them as a core team member, are at one point the ones who come to our program to have a career. And we look into them and say, " Oh, you're learning this, but maybe you can be good in this one. Why don't you come and experiment and do this?" Or they come to us and say, " I want to be an HR person," so come in and get that experience into our program as a core team member. So there are multiple benefits of how we have structured this program. It is a platform, I would say. And we have purposely kept it small, very intimate, is the word to say. We know each other. We have to make sure that they are here learning not only the work skills but also learning teamwork, learning collaboration, learning communication, learning confidence. All those things are a part of our program.

Dane Groeneveld: That's really neat. So it's almost become somewhat of a lab for you all to be curious and find these patterns that help people get back to work, help teams, I guess, welcome these moms back into their own work environment too.

Reena Gupta: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Dane Groeneveld: That's neat. And is it-

Reena Gupta: Interestingly, I still get calls from...

Dane Groeneveld: ...-

Reena Gupta: I get calls from my earlier clients and say, " Hey, are you still doing these work and some consulting?" I said, " No, but I have a team now who can help," and then it goes on. So it's very interesting, how it has turned out to be.

Dane Groeneveld: So clearly, the technology sphere has been a good one for bringing people in. You mentioned Salesforce, you mentioned IBM, and then I heard you reference HR. Are there other sort of professions, skill sets, tasks which are better for moms returning to work after a career break?

Reena Gupta: So I mean, again, I go back and say every profession that can give them a lifestyle that will work with their family and everything is a good thing for them to think about. Again, as I said, while I'm doing Mom Relaunch to help women become financially independent, but my ultimate goal is to create a society in which everyone is respected for their work. Everyone, whether they're stay at home moms, whether they're working moms, they're adding and contributing to the society and to their family and all that, right?

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Reena Gupta: So a lot of women, they try to come back, number one, because of their identity. Number two, because of their financial need. And number three is to make sure that they contribute something to the society and for themselves as well, right?

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Reena Gupta: So in a way, I think the structure of the program, the way we have put together, is to cover all those aspects of overall personality development, but not only just in terms of the financial, but the overall... become a person who is contributing in all ways. So that is important. That is important for everyone to understand. And that's why our focus is a lot on make sure that you communicate, you bring your family together, you bring your community together. I mean, it's so important. It's so important that I can't stress that enough. My ultimate concern that we go back and say is like there used to be a structure like men are breadwinners, women are homemakers, that has been good, we have been wired so much, is changing. It is a huge change in last, I would say, two generations. Especially if I look at this generation of my mom, myself and my daughter, I see a huge difference, like a change in the mindset. So I'm actually worried about the next generation of men, because next generation of girls are not going to take any crap. That's how I say it, it's time...

Dane Groeneveld: Oh, I agree

Reena Gupta: It's for men to step up, and boys voice to learn. And it's not showing that trend, so I am concerned.

Dane Groeneveld: It is interesting. And without going too far down that rabbit hole, I was at a conference recently, and one of the speakers was talking about the last two generations and how there are actually more women graduating from advanced degree programs than there are men. They also explained that with young men, I think 18 to 35, we've got an increasing dislocation with young men in the workforce. Obviously, crime is a problem, and the way that our whole criminal justice system works. That's pulling some people out and not letting them get back in, sometimes probably being a bit heavy- handed there. But also just the availability of some of these jobs that don't require the education and the professional career development pathways, some of those jobs are getting squeezed by technology, automation, offshoring, you name it. So I do think that you're right, that it's an exciting time for women in the world of work.

Reena Gupta: Yeah, absolutely.

Dane Groeneveld: For the next generation of males coming through, they've got some very good competition, but they also need to be thinking about where they're going to play their roles-

Reena Gupta: Yeah, absolutely.

Dane Groeneveld: ...not only in education and work, but also in the household.

Reena Gupta: Absolutely, absolutely.

Dane Groeneveld: I mean, it's a real blank canvas, in many respects.

Reena Gupta: Yeah. No, I'm raising a boy and a girl. And I can see a huge difference, and I can see the need and the role of the parents to nurture the boys. There are so many programs to educate girls, like Girls Who Code, all those things. But where is Boys to Cook? Where are those groups? We need those groups.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah, we do. And maybe that's part of the good work that you are doing, because if one of the Mom Relaunch moms is coming home and saying, " Hey, family, you need to help me out because I'm going back to work," maybe that does mean that the son's picking up some more cooking skills or organizing the washing and other duties, dropping younger siblings at sports, you name it.

Reena Gupta: Absolutely.

Dane Groeneveld: The whole concept of family, a team, I'm fascinated that you've incorporated that into your program. I think that it's going to continue to be... just like you said" life partner" earlier, I think that the family unit continues to be a meaningful driver of productivity and success.

Reena Gupta: Absolutely, because again, I go back and say gender equality starts at home. So if you are appreciative of what your partner as a man, if you are ... as a gender who has not been used to this... very difficult to say men, women, and all those things. So I'm just saying as a partner, if you have not been used to doing some of those chores, you first do it at home, appreciate the work that has been done at home. Because many people, they don't even appreciate that. And that's another reason of women going back, because they don't feel appreciated for the work that they're doing as a stay- at- home mom, and they want their identity, they want their-

Dane Groeneveld: And that's a lot of work.

Reena Gupta: That's a lot of work. And I mean, it's not that women who are going back and doing the... And I take that thing as well, it's like I do professional work, but also the responsibility of household chores a lot at my home, till I sat down and gave that whole structure to them and said, " Nope, that's your thing. And if you don't have a dinner, that's your problem." But there's still the responsibility. It's funny, because we can go on and on this thing, is even if you outsource the work to your family, still, the planning is on the head of-

Dane Groeneveld: It is.

Reena Gupta: And it'll take time. I mean, I think all we need to see is the uptake progress. If we are progressing in the right direction, that's... It's years and years and centuries of the problem. It can't be solved in one generation.

Dane Groeneveld: No, I agree.

Reena Gupta: As long as we are making that positive move, I think I'm very, very optimistic. And all I have to now work on is to nurture and teach men and boys. And I think I'm very, very happy how women are coming up and stepping up and taking their roles in the society as well as at home. It's important to nurture men now.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah. No, that's really neat. So maybe that's a good segue to jump into, I don't know, Reena, do you think it's best that we talk about the book, or do we talk about Wisdocity? What do you think is-

Reena Gupta: I mean, you can go back and say, " Is there some of these things that you're talking is a part of your book," and then I can answer that.

Dane Groeneveld: Sure, sure. Okay. So as far as the book, you mentioned before it was The Rising Tide Lifts All Boats?

Reena Gupta: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: Yep. So could you tell us a little bit more about how the Mom Relaunch experience has shaped the narrative in that book?

Reena Gupta: Sure, sure. So when I started writing the book, right, it was right before the pandemic. I thought, " I'm going to write a book about my own experience." And I label myself as a solo bootstrap entrepreneur. And that itself is a book in its own. But then I reached out to a person who should help me with putting my thoughts together. We call as a ghost author, but she was so good that we thought it will become a co- author. And she joined hands in writing the book. And she has a completely different experience, and she was a stay- at- home mom. She let go of her own thriving career. And she thought that the work that I'm doing for Mom Relaunch is more appropriate than just because there are so many books on entrepreneurship, but there are not many books on the topic that we are talking and work we are doing. So she talked me into, " Hey, why don't you write a book for Mom Relaunch, for women who are struggling and all?" And then while we are discussing, this whole pandemic thing happened. And it did not remain the problem of women only, because almost everybody was getting fired, everybody was becoming uncertain. The whole workforce shifted, and that's where the title Career Interrupted came in. And we structured that whole book into that it is a career, but your career cannot be just one angle of your life. So we came up with the three- legged stool. One is your career, which is where the focus is. The second is the family and friends, which is what I talked in the first few minutes of this podcast. And third is your own wellness and your own health. So the whole book is structured around those three- legged stool and how you keep all of them in harmony and in balance, and we call it as a work- life harmony, and give them an actionable strategy. So if you are a person who's getting laid off, if you're returning back to the workforce, if you're someone who's in a career rut... or a very interesting thing that we also took a persona of people, like nowadays if you look into it, people are delaying having family because of the career. So there is a person that we interviewed, which I didn't even know they'd call, and her title is Motherhood Clarity Mentor. And that was another thing I learned while we are writing that book. So that book shaped me in many ways as well. And all the things that I talked about, family and friends, how you do it, whether it is writing your own V2MOM, everything is part of the book that we have written. And at the end, you come up with a one page, your work- life canvas that you can just use it, say, " From this start date to this end date, this is what my focus is." You don't have to see what everybody is doing, but what and how you are progressing, what is your progress, how you are moving is what is important. And you give yourself the score and the rating that we talk about in our book to see how you are. Forget about competing with others, just compete with yourself and be a better self for yourself is how to that book is focused on.

Dane Groeneveld: That's great. And that's an important message, because I know talking to a lot of the moms I see either trying to get back into the workforce or in the workforce, everyone's always comparing against what they see in social media, " Oh, that mom's at work and still doing great birthday cakes," or whatever it might be. I mean, there's some real super moms out there in social media, and I don't think that's the point. I think the point is, how can you be driving your balance? I like this three- legged stool.

Reena Gupta: Yeah, I teach everybody... so many times I have been labeled as supermom, but I specifically say, " Please do not make me supermom. That is not where any women should be thriving to be. And I would be happy if you called me a happy mom." But that's how it is. I don't need the title of super, and I don't want anyone to think like that. So these are some of the thought process that we have to change. We have to work hard to change these things.

Dane Groeneveld: I think so.

Reena Gupta: And it's very important, very, very important for-

Dane Groeneveld: I actually think that's an important shift in the workplace at large. We had one of our guests, Eric Coryell, come on and talk about in the workplace there aren't many true teams, because what you often see is a bunch of individuals just trying to look good in front of the boss. And that's dangerous. It doesn't create a sense of belonging, it doesn't create acceptance, like you touched on earlier. I think if we're going to have teams that are effective, that can create a good sense of belonging, that can make it easier for maybe new people to come in and be a part of the team, it's not about who the firefighter is that comes in and puts the fire out. It's about who's being a good community player, team player, whether it's delegating, creating access to information, providing just moral support. There's a lot there.

Reena Gupta: Yeah. So again, the teamwork, if you look at it as your guest has rightly said, it is coming from the individualistic mindset. It's, " How am I doing? How am I progressing?" It's, " I, I, I." The moment you change that shift from, " How are we moving as a team, what can we accomplish as a team," is what we teach at Mom Relaunch. So one of my talks during the career assessment when we come back and say, " Don't think what Mom Relaunch is going to provide to you, but come with the mindset of what you have to offer." And it could be anything as simple as this is your family recipe that you want to share, because every time you speak, you are bringing some value to the team. And we have moms who teach each other how to do Zumba dance. So it's all part of it. It's just fun and collaboration, because we talk about diversity, we talk about all these things, but you cannot be a team until and unless you empathize with each other, you learn from each other. And we accept how new things can be brought to the table by listening to someone else's view. So those are the few things that has worked out really well in Mom Relaunch.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah. I like the circularity there of, " Hey, we've helped you find a job, but come back and keep helping others find jobs, or others find balance at home."

Reena Gupta: Absolutely.

Dane Groeneveld: That's really neat. We were doing a project just recently for a large Australian mining company, that they have a lot of workers in camps. Now, these are largely men, rather than women. And what that means is that you've got men in a work site at camp, hazardous environment, stressful environment, they're suffering some depression, anxiety. But then you've got often the mom and the kids at home who are dealing with their own stress and anxieties, because the husband's away for two weeks at a time. So if a water heater breaks down or if a child's having a problem with bullying or homework, it's all on mom, particularly because communications aren't great with the camps. And one of the big themes that we talked about there, which I think you are clearly building at Mom Relaunch, is community building. And that's actually just starting to resonate with me, is that what we need for these fly in, fly out workers, field workers, is helping them build more communities, not only with each other as workers, but amongst their families.

Reena Gupta: Yes. You got it, you got it.

Dane Groeneveld: And that's a huge shift.

Reena Gupta: It's huge

Dane Groeneveld: So clearly creating that awareness, that support in communities, means that companies can do more, that kids are growing up healthier. It's a very interesting thing.

Reena Gupta: Yeah. I would love to talk to you about what we have been doing in our community in the city where I live. And exactly what you said, it's not only just people leaving, like your men who are working at camps, but think about the... And I'm just going to give an example of our own Indian community who are here leaving their country. We find support in each other. So we have created a group of... And I'm personally a believer in if you want to change the world, what you need to do is focus on yourself, change yourself, focus on your family, and just focus on your community where you live. Because if you just focus on that, the world will change. If you want the world to have a more sustainable... just make sure people in your community take ownership and leadership and do that, are living a sustainable life, they're doing this. So if you're just focusing, you don't have to do the reach out to everybody in the world through these social media and the things that's happening on LinkedIn and others, which cause a little bit more depression to everyone, knowing that, " Why are you not doing it?" So I'm a very, very active community member, and not only from our perspective, but the work that I do and the vision of my other company, Wisdocity, which means sharing the wisdom from each other... So we are creating those wisdom series of talk from local people, local people, local community, local town. We just celebrated couple of very interesting Indian holidays, but we invited people from all communities.

Dane Groeneveld: Great.

Reena Gupta: If you know the Festival of Lights called Diwali?

Dane Groeneveld: Diwali, yeah.

Reena Gupta: And the city of Pleasant and the museum, they offer to make handmade Diwalis. And people of all the kids and everybody from every community, they came and learned what it is. It's like spreading the joy, spreading the light. It's not about what the historical and religious side of it, but what is the value of it, right?

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Reena Gupta: So we celebrate Christmas, why? Because we feel the joy of giving, right?

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Reena Gupta: So these are the things that we are trying to do. And a very interesting, relevant thing about the community support, so when I had my... This one, so this little one... Of course this was my first pet. And the first time I had it is I have no clue what to do and how to do it. So I formed a group of friends who had the dogs of the same size. And we are depending on each other if we go out. We never have to put them on in the kennel, because they can stay with each other. That's the sense of community that we are bringing in.

Dane Groeneveld: That's cool. That's really cool. So you've moved from joint family living to joint puppy living?

Reena Gupta: Joint puppy living, joint community living. I mean, trust me, it's all about community and being there for each other. That's all it boils down to.

Dane Groeneveld: That's really neat. And I'm glad to hear that that community effort, whether it's with sharing other cultures' holidays or support groups for raising puppies, that that fabric continues, because I think that is big. And I totally agree with your philosophy, that if you start with self, then family, then community, you're more likely to create a sustainable change rather than a fad.

Reena Gupta: Absolutely, yeah. So I mean, we all can do our part, is all I can say. And I think I'm very fortunate. I call myself as very fortunate to be able to contribute in all these areas.

Dane Groeneveld: Absolutely, yeah. Well, I'd love to call you back in with the concept of Wisdocity, because we're talking to some partners right now about smart cities and about how we integrate particularly the support and care and social interaction with our elders in the community, who can become very isolated, with some of the youth that are coming through and some of the learning and job opportunities. So I'd love to bring some conversation around that in the future. And I'm sure there'll be other listeners who'd love to learn more about Mom Relaunch or Career Interrupted or Wisdocity. So I know how to find you, but what would the easy way for our listeners be to come and find you or your businesses, Reena?

Reena Gupta: Yeah, so depending on what they are looking to interact with, they can go to MomRelaunch.org. They can go to Wisdocity; is a very simple website right now. But the best way to connect with me is through LinkedIn, if they like to reach out to me as well. I try to check as much as possible; not very active, though. And then they can always reach out to me through info @MomRelaunch.com, or my email ID, reena.gupta@ MomRelaunch. com. So these are some other good ways to reach out to me.

Dane Groeneveld: Wonderful. I'm sure you'll get a few calls, I'm sure. I mean, this work that you're doing is really exciting. There's a lot of communities, a lot of companies that can benefit from this. So I'm excited to keep partnering with you on this, Reena. I really appreciate you joining me today for the conversation.

Reena Gupta: Absolutely, absolutely. Dane, it's always a pleasure to talk to you.