Creating Learning Pathways for Young Adults with Dr. Dale Marsden

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This is a podcast episode titled, Creating Learning Pathways for Young Adults with Dr. Dale Marsden. The summary for this episode is: <p>Dr. Dale Marsden joins host Dane Groeneveld on The Future of Teamwork podcast to discuss his work as the superintendent of the San Bernadino City Unified School District. Dr. Dale also highlights how he is working to lead Tomorrow's Talent, an organization focused on providing quality education and learning paths that lead to employment opportunities for young adults.</p><p><br></p><p><strong>Topics of conversation:</strong></p><ul><li>[00:38] Dr. Dale's background in education</li><li>[03:46] Community partnerships and providing pathways in education to internships in fields students are interested in </li><li>[10:19] Cybersecurity apprenticeship in the San Bernadino City Unified Royal Valley High School</li><li>[15:25] Communities and communication systems that encourage learner success</li><li>[19:04] Paying interns and apprentices, and effects of community engagement programs</li><li>[26:05] Reversing a toxic culture slowly and building trust</li><li>[31:55] Addressing questions, comments, concerns, and kudos</li><li>[34:47] The After Action Review</li><li>[38:43] Engaging and informing the community, and using social media to get your message out there</li><li>[41:42] Leading a start up and what the experience spend like</li><li>[44:22] A vision for the future where students are rewarded for good work and enter a workplace</li><li>[46:53] Giving young people a place to release their ideas</li></ul>
Dr. Dale's background in education
02:18 MIN
Working with kids and providing paths to education
00:45 MIN
Community partnerships and providing pathways in education to internships in fields students are interested in
01:36 MIN
Preparing kids for the real world work
01:26 MIN
A shared definition and reality for the future of work
00:48 MIN
Bringing work to the region to take the inland empire to the next level
02:34 MIN
Cybersecurity apprenticeship in the San Bernadino City Unified Royal Valley High School
03:11 MIN
Apprenticeships and specializations
01:49 MIN
Communities and communication systems that encourage learner success
02:12 MIN
The blockchain and the possibility for apprenticeship tokens
01:22 MIN
Paying interns and apprentices
01:32 MIN
Community engagement programs
01:23 MIN
Bring our kids out of school as employed not just employable, creating connection with the real world
02:59 MIN
Externships and teachers going out into industry
01:03 MIN
Reversing a toxic culture slowly and building trust
03:22 MIN
Engaging high-performing people and managing performance expectations
01:24 MIN
My decision is to involve people in the decisions that affect them
00:52 MIN
Addressing questions, comments, concerns, and kudos
02:15 MIN
The After Action Review
01:36 MIN
Living in the community, and taking the time to talk to people
02:12 MIN
Engaging and informing the community, and using social media to get your message out there
02:48 MIN
Leading a start up and what the experience spend like
02:34 MIN
A vision for the future where students are rewarded for good work and enter a workplace
01:10 MIN
The wisdom of our adolescents, and creating a pipeline for talent
01:17 MIN
Giving young people a place to release their ideas
01:17 MIN

Dane Groeneveld: Welcome to the Future of Teamwork podcast. My name's Dane Groeneveld, CEO of HUDDL3 Group, and I'm really pleased to have Dr. Dale Marsden here today from Tomorrow's Talent. Welcome, Dale.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Hey. Thank you so much, Dane. Thanks for the invite.

Dane Groeneveld: Oh, you bet. It's been really fun. It's probably been the best part of a year now that we've been bouncing-

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: ...around on some ideas around your business, my business, community projects. It's-

Dr. Dale Marsden: I think you're right.

Dane Groeneveld: ...been fun working together so far.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah. Agreed. Very much so.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah. So perhaps, for our listeners, you can give us a little bit of a background and introduction on your career-

Dr. Dale Marsden: Sure.

Dane Groeneveld: ...and personal business story.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Sure. You bet. Yeah. So, 27 years in public education. So, got my launch after going in the air force for a few years. A police officer, when I was a kid, said," Hey, you need to go in the service to get your head screwed on straight." So thankfully, followed his advice and ended up in public education. Absolutely loved teaching kids. Did that for a few years and then got-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...into administration. Principal of schools. And then ultimately, followed a superintendent who was one of the most effective superintendents in the state. A very successful, high- performing, high- poverty district, and followed him as superintendent. And an incredible opportunity, and a year- long overlap of leadership. So a transfer of knowledge-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...ability to have a strong leader pour into me and a lot of other... And that's where I learned to lead. That's where I learned about teamwork and what it takes to get real results. And then in the middle of that journey, after about four years, I got recruited into San Bernardino City unified school district, which is one of the 10 largest districts in the state of California. 50, 000 kids. 8, 000 employees. And, yeah. So took that journey. And our team was able to grow the graduation rate from 66.8% to 93. 6%. Doubled the number of kids ready for college, and then grew in our pathways for students from five to 53. Connecting students in a high poverty environment, where 92% of students were traditionally marginalized, 90% of students from poverty. Connecting them to opportunities that were high- growth, high- wage, high- demand industry sectors, just to really reinvent the community. And so, and that led me to a space that I've seen our system has sorely missed, which is the ability to bridge students at every level, whether it's K- 12, or community college, 4 universities, to what's next. Or even students that aren't in college.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Or are going on the college track. Really just hard wiring students to what's next. And so, that's led me to what I'm doing now with the company Tomorrow's Talent. And where we bridge young adults to passion, and help education industries connect to the real world of work. And so, that's what I'm doing now.

Dane Groeneveld: It's a hell of a track record.

Dr. Dale Marsden: inaudible.

Dane Groeneveld: And I love what you said about working with kids. I personally find it such a rich learning ground to be working with kids that are learning for themselves, and seeing how teams-

Dr. Dale Marsden: That's right.

Dane Groeneveld: ...come together-

Dr. Dale Marsden: That's right.

Dane Groeneveld: ...in the classroom, out of the classroom.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: And you see so much potential for the future, also some of the challenges.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Nothing more gratifying.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Nothing more gratifying than seeing a student launch into something that they grow. And it's in their passion, or it's that their interests, their talents, their aptitudes are like... And just knowing that something exists beyond them. Especially students of poverty. They just don't have the experiences and schema, and sometimes the family relationships, to introduce and get them started. And so this ability to connect students, socially.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And get the social capital connecting with nexus is really important.

Dane Groeneveld: That is. And we don't think about, I don't think we think about, our schools as the organizations that they are. We think about our schools as where my kid goes, or the experience they have in the classroom. We don't think about just how heavily the interaction is. And how many people. You said 8, 000 employees.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: That's a lot of people doing a lot of work that is behind the scenes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: Community partnerships. And you reference these pathways, so from five to 53. Could you perhaps share a little bit more about what it takes to create those pathways and the role that they play?

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah. You bet. And so, in my role as superintendent, I also sat on the county workforce board. And in that role, that helped me to get a peek behind the scenes of what are the high growth, high demand, and high wage industry sectors that are growing and emerging within, not only our own county, but within the state of California. And then also, broadly, what do our students need to be prepared for the real world, worldwide?

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: So, not just the jobs that are here, but the jobs that we could bring here, if the students had the knowledge, skills, and abilities. And so, we then worked with local employers, and started with our county as an employer, actually. And saying," Okay. Could we tie these pathways for students to job- alike internships?"

Dane Groeneveld: Yep.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And so, students who were, say, at the healthcare pathway at one of our high schools, would get a paid internship with a local county hospital, and get 120 hours of experience. Get their feet wet. Make sure that's really what they want to do before they go launch off on this college track, or further track.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Because the data tells us now that when students achieve the holy grail of public ed, and achieve their Bachelor's Degree, 53% of students are under unemployed with a Bachelor's Degree. And so-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...we have a lot of work to do to bridge the education systems to the real world of work. I'll never forget, had met with Jim Clifton, CEO of Gallup, in his office, as we were talking-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...about this at lunch. And he had surveyed, Gallup had surveyed the entire planet, for a lot of things. But one thing they did that I found very interesting in his book, The Coming Jobs War, is they surveyed all the chief academic officers and asked," How well are you doing?" And these are K- 12, community college, for university, chief academic officers." How well you doing at preparing kids for the real world of work?"

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: 96% of us said we did a great job. Then they surveyed the real world of work. It was 11%. So, the divide is huge and-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...it hasn't gotten smaller.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And so, our systems are losing the ability to authentically prepare students for what is the real world of work.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And there's just such a big disconnect. And so, if we don't do something urgently, I'm afraid, and engage our students young and often, in real experiences, not just to build the social capital experiences or knowledge, and in relationships, but to build authentic experiences, what's next? I think our system is going to fail students more.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: It's interesting. I can't remember who it was I was speaking to the other day, and they said," Success really comes from a well defined mission." And that statistic, 96% saying we did great and 11% saying it doesn't work, it kind of shouts out there's a lack of definition of what we're trying to achieve here.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah. Very much so.

Dane Groeneveld: It's not that people on either side aren't doing their absolute best, but we just never created that shared reality of what is preparing these young people for the future of work.

Dr. Dale Marsden: That's exactly right.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: That's exactly...

Dane Groeneveld: And when you think about creating that definition, that's going to take a team. Because we can't create for today's world of work because we're creating kids that aren't going to be in it for five, or 10, or 15-

Dr. Dale Marsden: That's right.

Dane Groeneveld: ...years.

Dr. Dale Marsden: That's exactly right.

Dane Groeneveld: So, I think it's going to be interesting considering what those pathways are. And you mentioned, or you made a really good statement there. It's not just about the work we have today, but what work could we bring to the region. I think that's the definition of good planning, isn't it?

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: We're going to become good at these skills, and we're going to bring this type of work into the region.

Dr. Dale Marsden: That's right.

Dane Groeneveld: So, when you think about that, what inland empires, obviously, where you are doing a lot of your best work-

Dr. Dale Marsden: Correct.

Dane Groeneveld: Where do you see the story for that particular geography, in terms of industries that will make up the future of work, the future of industry?

Dr. Dale Marsden: And that's a great question. And I think, a couple points I'll just reflect on. And one is, I was sitting down at lunch one time with Jack Dangermond, who's the CEO-

Dane Groeneveld: Yep.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...of Esri, the second largest software company in the world, who's based out in Redlands. And he's like," Dale, what is the Inland Empire known for?"

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And we have trouble, I think, answering that question. Right now, it's a lot for logistics and manufacturing. But one area that I think recently took interest, and the Governor of California has, and this is from the Governor of California, has an interest in seeing 500,000 apprenticeships by 2029. And a lot of folks have seen the teamwork of inter agencies working together in the Inland Empire like never before. And so, there's a lot of folks that have come together, and have the ability to have that collective capacity to move things forward.

Dane Groeneveld: Yep.

Dr. Dale Marsden: So the Governor chose to recently launch, and we're a part of this with the LAUNCH Apprenticeship Network, the Inland Empire Cybersecurity Apprenticeship Initiative. So, there's a real need for cybersecurity in every industry, profit and nonprofit. And so this is an opportunity, as I mentioned before, to bring something from the outside in.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And let us in. And I was going back to my conversation with Jack Dangermond. I think what we should be known for is the human capital of California.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And so, building the people with the kinds of skills and knowledge for jobs, careers, entrepreneurial leadership, those are the kinds of things I think we're poised to be working on.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: To take the Inland Empire to the next level.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes. No, and I think those human skills are the ones that are very... they create a lot of agility. They're very transferable, depending on what technology, or what hardware, or what else it might be. What legislation drives the, I guess, the success for industry in the future that, if the people have those skills, they can-

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: ...move with that success.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah, that's right.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: That's right.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah. So the cybersecurity apprenticeship, for listeners out there, what does that mean? What's the story of a young person getting into that pathway? And how do they translate through school-

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: ...experience to career?

Dr. Dale Marsden: That's a great question. It's a beautiful illustration of this, is that at one of the high schools in San Bernardino City Unified-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...Royal Valley High School has about 476 students in their cybersecurity pathway, from ninth through 12th grade. So, it's a lot of kids.

Dane Groeneveld: That's a lot.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Information technology. Cybersecurity. Digital design. Areas that are related either tangentially or directly to cybersecurity.

Dane Groeneveld: Yep.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And so the students get a sense of those experiences up front. But what really makes that experience, I think, very meaningful, is several of the teachers have actually come from industry. So they had a choice. They could, and this is terrible that they have to make this choice, but they could work in industry and make six figures, or they could work in education, maybe make a little bit less.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And invest in our youth. And that's often the case.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And the students see a model of the real world right in front of them as their teacher, and able to learn the kinds of skills to be successful in the real world of cybersecurity. So in those pathways, they have solid curriculum that's woven together, and working with other leaders in the industry, like our local Cal State San Bernardino's a national center for cybersecurity education. So they're seen as a beacon, really. My own son went through the program. And I often tell people, they used to brag about and say," Hey. They're second to MIT until they beat MIT." There's just a solid program. One of the-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...top of the nation. A force to be reckoned with. So our kids have that in their backyard. And expertise from that campus comes to interact with the high school teachers-

Dane Groeneveld: Yep.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...regularly. And so that transfer of knowledge has been real important in an environment where 90 plus percent of students are in high poverty environments.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: They're getting exposure to a high growth, high demand, high wage industry sector.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Where today they can start earning six figures, often just right out of their college experience. And so, what's next for them after high school, while they're in high school, is actually engaging in a paid internship with local employers.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: That's what we help to bridge them into. And then ultimately, growing that into a registered competency- based apprenticeship.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Where students get all the certifications that are necessary to be successful in that world. Where the employer hires them on their payroll as an apprentice, and there's a soft transition to what's next for them in permanency. And so that creates that experience, and it's been exciting to see. We had one of our students, who was formerly at Royal Valley High School, who then went on to Cal State San Bernardino, was in their freshman year, was actually hired. Paid as a pre- apprentice with-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...our local East Valley Water District. And so, it was a fantastic opportunity to see that experience take off. And now Metropolitan Water District's working with us to take that to the next level for students in LA Unified, and in some other areas across the state. So that's an area that's growing. It's a desperate need for every industry, as we've seen.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Even in the media.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And so, it's an attractive area for youth. It's sexy. It's something that's fun for them, and they can make a lot of money if they get into it right. And you know, you don't have to be a coder. You can enjoy multiple aspects, from the legal aspect to the hardware side of it-

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...to the coding side. There's so many things students can do in that space that it's pretty broad.

Dane Groeneveld: So the apprenticeship has some breadth.

Dr. Dale Marsden: It does.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Very much so. Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah. Which I think is the best part of all good apprenticeships.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Right.

Dane Groeneveld: Is that it's an opportunity to learn your way into some transferable skills, and then to specialize.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And we've got to do a better job at it in high school.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: We do not do this well at all, as a state. We have probably less than a dozen students, that are high school students, in registered apprenticeships.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: As a state. And so we're woefully lacking. We have a lot of work to do, and we're hoping to move that dial.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah. You touched on high poverty, particularly for-

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: ...your district. But that is a problem in a lot of districts across America.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Very much so.

Dane Groeneveld: And that becomes a barrier for young people being able to take time out, to be in apprenticeships, particularly if the time's not being afforded to them in the traditional school day. Are you seeing good evidence of teamwork partnerships in the community to create funding for these apprenticeships, so that more kids can take the time?

Dr. Dale Marsden: We are working to stir that up, and that is occurring more than it has in the past. There's a lot of research to support that it is really a social justice issue. If students, especially at the college level-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...are not engaged in paid internship experiences-

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...and apprenticeship experiences. It simply can't happen. Matter of fact, we're seeing in high schools, even where students will turn down a paid internship because they have a part- time job.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: It pays just a little bit more because they need that to help the family put something on the table.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: So, we do have a lot of work to do to change that. But there are foundations that are emerging, that are growing out of local communities, that are taking some of that role on. Paying students a scholarship, for example.

Dane Groeneveld: Yep.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And trying to find creative ways to pay students so it doesn't interfere with their financial aid, which is an interesting piece of inaudible.

Dane Groeneveld: Oh, I hadn't even thought of that.

Dr. Dale Marsden: We hadn't thought about it either.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: There's all these nuances that I think that-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...as communities do inaudible. Matter of fact, I would have to say that unless communities come together as a team-

Dane Groeneveld: Yep.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...and really follow what we learned over a decade ago from the Stanford collective impact innovation-

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...review-

Dane Groeneveld: Yep.

Dr. Dale Marsden: They've got to come around to a common agenda, a clear communication system. There's got to be a backbone organization that helps facilitate this teamwork, and this relationship, and the structure. And that's really what we emulated in San Bernardino City Unified. We really worked and essentially, the school district was the only show in town, so we started as that backbone organization. But after being even the topic of study, we felt we can't continue and sustain that. So that's shifted over to a nonprofit foundation called Uplift San Bernardino, which actually is the background. That is their entire role-

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...is to serve as an independent backbone, to facilitate these relationships so that the community can grow its muscle around working interdependently. And that all these elements, or these random acts of excellence, become aligned acts of excellence.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And the left hand talks to the right, and people know who's who. Matter of fact, I heard it said in Cincinnati, where some of this kind of collective impact effort took off, that nonprofits would come and speak with the philanthropy. And often the philanthropy would say," Well, you're connected to this project here," with what they called Thrive in Cincinnati. And if they said no, they didn't fund them. So...

Dane Groeneveld: Wow. There's currency to that. Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: I mean, if you can get to that level of sophistication where you have a backbone organization that says," Hey, this is how we do things around here. We're all on the same page because we have one vision in mind, which is to help produce a productive citizenry and take our community the next level-"

Dane Groeneveld: Yep.

Dr. Dale Marsden: When you're clear on that, and I think that's really coming back to why the Inland Empire is really set and poised for some tremendous growth, is just because of that.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: That's what's happening.

Dane Groeneveld: That's neat. I mean, on backbone, it, for some reason, visually or not, it takes me to blockchain. Right?

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: And I've been playing around with a few of our team members, a few of our partners, on what is the future of that emerging technology. Tokenization. Tokenomics. Really incentivizing people to come and do certain things. And really, if I understand it correctly, I think some of these token plays can actually create almost like a parallel economy. But I almost wonder, when you said funding incentivizing these students, and the community getting behind it, whether there is a token play there too in the future. Because to your example with Thrive, if there was to be a token, which was the apprenticeship token, and certain employers in the communities would contribute-

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: ...either their time, their resources, their facilities-

Dr. Dale Marsden: Why not?

Dane Groeneveld: ...to create apprenticeships, and they would get tokens for that. And then you would give tokens to kids for completing the courses. All of a sudden, you can create a backbone that has actually... It creates certification-

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yep, yep.

Dane Groeneveld: ...for what people have done, but it also creates some discounted opportunities, some restricted access, for those people that go through the pathways.

Dr. Dale Marsden: I think there are some real opportunities with that.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And you asked about are people funding this, earlier? I'll tell you, I have to give a shout out to East Valley Water District because-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...I mean, we helped them write board policy, where now they have written into their regular day to day operations, that they will hire and pay interns-

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...as part of their natural course of doing business as a public agency.

Dane Groeneveld: Yep.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And I really think that's a great next step. And I've talked about this with the Secretary of Labor for California. Some early legislation should go into play, where if you're a public agency, that should be kind of required opportunity. And hard wire that into your policies and your practices, that we will engage-

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...the youth at every level, 16 to 24- year- olds, in paid internships that are job alike to their interest, talents, and aptitudes.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And I think if we do more of that, and I'll give you example. The San Bernardino City is the seat of the County of San Bernardino. Thousands of wonderful high paying technical jobs. People drive into-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...the city every day and drive right back out. And most of the 200 plus residents, 200, 000 plus residents, don't even know these jobs exist.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And so that was the beauty of having students in a job like paid internships, as they were then getting exposed to and becoming aware of, and their families too, of," Hey, there's some great opportunities for you here right in your own backyard."

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And so I think that's the way to turn local communities around, is them coming together as a force. I mean, when I was superintendent in San Bernardino City, we would actually have, every year, a community engagement for excellence conference. About a thousand people would come.

Dane Groeneveld: Yep.

Dr. Dale Marsden: It was great. We'd pack out the Orange Show. Faith- based, community- based organizations. Service organizations. Your public sector, private sector. School leaders, parents, students. All under one roof. And we would sit and talk about what is our plan to ensure we get from where we are currently to where we want to go. And get their fingerprints hardwired onto our plan, and start-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...building those relationships. And it was a powerful event. Every year. Just the energy that was around it. The speakers that we had come were just phenomenal and helped to tie this work together, to help us renew our commitment every year to," Hey, these are the goals we set." And that's what helped us get to where we got to.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Not overnight, but over time, because everybody had the same message. That vision, the message was owned, known, and energized by all. You could ask parents.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: "What's the vision here?" The vision was making hope happen.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: That was what we were about. And so, it just... Yeah, it's important.

Dane Groeneveld: I think there's a big message as well, for community members to try and find out where those conferences are, where they can participate with the school systems, and with the other big community groups. Because I was fortunate enough to join a breakfast when I was last in New Orleans with Jefferson Parish, where we're doing some projects with Dr. Gray and his team down there, and they had the Fast Forward program. And it was great to see the local universities, community colleges, employers, all in the room around, I think they called it their Fast Forward program. But I walked away from that with a killer soundbite, which is we need to bring, and I think I've shared it with you, we need to bring our kids out of school as employed, not just-

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: ...employable.

Dr. Dale Marsden: That's exactly right.

Dane Groeneveld: And it's very powerful.

Dr. Dale Marsden: They get this right in Switzerland.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And I was talking about this a little bit at lunch. And there's a permeable system of apprenticeships. When you're in ninth grade-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Half the battle in high school today is keeping kids in school, and keeping them engaged. And it's an uphill battle.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: You're talking to a person who did 27 years in public education. I mean, so I was the choir. We were there. We were.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And students need to be engaged. We need to touch their hearts. They need to know that what they're doing is going to tap into the real world, that disconnect I mentioned earlier. We've got to do a better job at engaging our kids early and often. I mean, I'll never forget a walk and a tour of some of our elementary schools, where we would walk into one of their advanced manufacturing labs in an elementary school, and see students that were kindergartners, first graders, third graders, using the adult version of computer- assisted design software.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: They didn't even know it was this big grand software. They just did it.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And then they had a 3D printing of something, or other advanced subtracted manufacturing kind of play or printers. And they were creating and doing some wonderful things. They did that in healthcare, where we partnered with Loma Linda University Health. And students had on their medical labs, and was the eyecare lab. And they learned about-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...the human body, and the medical space. And getting them keynote speakers coming in, them going out on field trips. And I remember one day, I was going to a meeting with the president of Loma Linda University Hospital, Dick Hart, and I'm walking out there. And here's one of our high school classes, the entire class. No, excuse me. They were a middle school class. The entire class, they're touring the campus and getting an understanding of all the health career fields that are there. We've got to do a better job at bridging, and being consciously active in our efforts to connect and deliver, to connect our students to really what's in that real world. And we need to think more about getting our teachers. They want to be connected to the real world.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Our teachers are hungry, I think, for externships, the ability to experience what's going on in the real world that they're preparing the students for. Especially if a teacher comes out of an education school, and they haven't necessarily come out of industry.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: We need to do a better job as education system leaders, even.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Creating those experiences for our teachers.

Dane Groeneveld: So, you mentioned externship. So is that teachers going out into industry?

Dr. Dale Marsden: Exactly.

Dane Groeneveld: I've not heard of that.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And this has happened.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: We've had teachers go to the water district to learn about water operations and the behind- the- scenes of what does this-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...what's it take to build these highly technical degrees, and skills, and the sciences that are there, to teachers going into externships with the university healthcare systems, and etc. And so, it's manufacturing. We've had teachers go out in manufacturing and see what that looks like. And-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah. There's just such a need for that, to close that grand divide between the 96% and the 11% that I mentioned earlier.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah. Yeah. I know. And I think it's a great play on teamwork, because you can't just say that team does this and this team does that, which I think is the 96, 11% problem. You've got to say," We're one team. Let's bring some of your folks over here, and our folks over there, and create-

Dr. Dale Marsden: inaudible.

Dane Groeneveld: ...shared reality. Create more awareness of what the next few critical steps are.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah. And none of this... In San Bernardino City, I was there eight years. The average tenure of a superintendent in California, or in the US, is about 2. 7 years.

Dane Groeneveld: Wow.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And so, staying as long as I did. What we know is even if you're a mediocre superintendent-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...the research says the longevity of the superintendent has twice the impact on student achievement than any other comprehensive reform. Meaning the ability of a superintendent, or a leader in any organization-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...a business, you can take this to any Fortune 500 company. The longer you can have a leader stay or keep stability of leadership, and ensure a strong knowledge transfer, the longer that organizational experience results. And so what we got didn't happen overnight.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: It happened over time. I came into San Bernardino City. Our team worked together in a toxic, very low trust, culture and environment.

Dane Groeneveld: Yep.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And over time, we built into a high trust, engagement culture-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...and empowerment culture.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: We actually took a survey when I first arrived, called Power- over Versus Power- with.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: It was fun. Every 18 months we did the survey again. And to watch that dial move from a power- over organization to a power- with organization, because we were powering leaders. One time, I had our safety officer give me a call. He needed, apparently needed the superintendent's advice on a technical safety issue, which I have no training or knowledge for. And I said," This will be the last time you call me. Don't call me anymore. I trust your judgment."

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: You can let me know what you're doing, keep me informed. But I trust your judgment." That was the role of leadership-

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...at that time is let people know that. Empower them. Help them to have the skills necessary to do the work in the right way. If you don't feel they do, then teach them those skills, and have adequate knowledge transfer so you can have a gradual release of responsibility. Let them take that on.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: It does go slower at first.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: But then you go way faster in the long run.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: What we did a lot of was working on defining what is trust? Building it. Codifying, putting a language to it. Really talking about what do you... We asked everybody in the organization," What do you want to see here, and feel in a district of excellence?"

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: What do you never want to see here and feel? What do you always want to see here and feel? And we codified those values and beliefs, and we put those values and beliefs before us in every meeting we had. So look, this is who we said we're going to be. How are we doing at these things? And constantly kept checking our actions against our vision, our values, our beliefs.

Dane Groeneveld: Yep.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Our objectives. And if we were out of line, we were honest with ourselves. If we weren't meeting our goals and objectives, we were honest with ourselves. The first year, I think we got to where we were by luck, I think. But I remember sitting at lunch with our cabinet planning team, and one of my education assistant superintendents got the text that our graduation results came in and they'd gone up. And we were all like," Hey, this is working."

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And so, it's just a team. And I knew this intuitively, but when you saw the results match up against it, that tells you that, hey, this work of building a team pays off.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: It wasn't Dale that got the results in San Bernardino City Unified. It was Dale and a team.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And we go much farther, much faster with others when we don't care who gets the credit.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And we build the capacity, the people around us. And also, we do the hard work of leaders, of having those hard conversations that if people aren't living up to the standards-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: 47% of our high performing people are looking for their next job.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: If we don't actively engage them, and renew that relationship with them, and remind them about how powerful they are to the organization, and tap into them for more people like them-

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: If we forget to do that, we're really losing the opportunity to double down on our most effective talent. And then secondly, if we have low performers in the organization, everybody's watching us as leaders.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And if we don't address that swiftly... As they say," Hire slow, fire fast."

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: If we don't address that swiftly, we're not going to make the results we're hoping to make.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: You've got to have those hard conversations of helping people improve their performance, clarifying what are expectations to do that. And then if those expectations aren't met, creating a kind way that it maybe isn't the best place for people to be in.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And those are important conversations to have, because if you're going to have a high performing team, you've got to have people that want to win.

Dane Groeneveld: Yep.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Want to know how to get there. Are hungry, humble, and smart. As some of the authors out there-

Dane Groeneveld: Hungry, yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...have written.

Dane Groeneveld: Won't see any.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Won't see any. No. Yeah. It's such a great tools. But, yeah,

Dane Groeneveld: That's neat. I was going to ask you a definition of good teamwork, but I think-

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: ...you just provided an example.

Dr. Dale Marsden: All right.

Dane Groeneveld: And funnily enough, it ties in... I heard Dave Lehmkuhl on the show the other day from Seamless AI and-

Dr. Dale Marsden: Oh, all right.

Dane Groeneveld: He's got a military background, and now worked in government contracting now in SaaS. And I asked him about his view on good teamwork. And he said," Trust and mission," which is really a lot of what you've just explained.

Dr. Dale Marsden: inaudible.

Dane Groeneveld: ...coming into the group and building that trust. I love the power- over versus power- with.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah. Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: That's really powerful.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah. Yeah. A lot of times I'd get some flack from my leadership team. They're like," Hey, Dale. Just make a decision." I'm like-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: "My decision is to involve people in the decisions that affect them."

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: That is my decision.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And so now here's," What do you think?"

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Here's-

Dane Groeneveld: Which is hugely empowering. With 8, 000 people, that's a-

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: ...that's a lot of change to drive.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: Did you have any key rituals, key moments in time, that really allowed you to drive such a big shift?

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah. I remember it vividly. Coming in, my first year. I had been trained on facilitating teams, and-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...those kinds of efforts. The skills and the tools had been wired into me as a teacher, and as a principal, as a leader. So we didn't really have that capacity with the organize... So at first, when I first came in, I was facilitating the meetings. I was doing the hard work of leading the meeting, but also facilitating it.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Which are two distinctly different activities.

Dane Groeneveld: Very different. Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And some of the tools I used... One was what I called an issues bin, where you put a blank chart paper on the wall with sticky notes available, and writing utensils at every desk. And simply made a comment that anybody can have, put a sticky note up or have somebody else put a sticky note up, questions, comments, concerns, or kudos. We divided that chart paper into quadrants. Questions, comments, concerns, or kudos. Compliments. And the first meeting I had was packed with sticky notes.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: There were all kinds of questions and concerns. And not very many kudos, and compliments.

Dane Groeneveld: No.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And this very first meeting I had, I think I probably shocked some of our leaders because I brought our union leaders in to join our management team. That had never happened. We had our union leaders then attend every management team meeting we had there forward. Why?" Because," I said," We don't have anything top secret. We're all here serving the public in the education system, and the students-"

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: "...that we serve. So, let's do this together." And do you know that over, not overnight, but over time, those sticky notes disappeared? People just-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...didn't put stuff up because they were satisfied that when they talked about it, we were acting on it. If they did put a sticky note up... And when that happened the first, even the first few weeks of my being there, I would read every single sticky note. And I would say," Did I answer that to your satisfaction?"

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And then we'd put it to the side and make sure we followed up with it later, if necessary. And I think that activity, of them seeing," Hey, we know we got problems. We acknowledge those problems, but we now take those to action and actually deliver on those." I think that's what-

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...builds trust and credibility over time.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And then empowering. So once I felt like the team had those skills, I stepped back. I was in the background. By year two, I'm watching others facilitate the meetings.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Do the same things.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And I'm just guiding on the side. To me, that I think is what takes a team to the next level-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...is when you take the time to build the capacity to people around you, to be better than you are.

Dane Groeneveld: Yep.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Hire people that are better than you are.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And then, once they're empowered, just kind of get out of their way. And stay involved and engaged, but let them do what they need to do.

Dane Groeneveld: I think that's, yeah. I've never seen that quadrant before, but I'll use it. It's a really powerful way to start a climate change.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: In a business and the way that leaders work with their teams.

Dr. Dale Marsden: The other tool we used quite a bit, and this is really adapted from the army, called the After Action Review.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: So after any major event, we just simply asked those three questions. What happened? What we just experienced, what did we learn from that? And then the third question, based on what we've learned, what are we going to do next time?

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And that really helped us. And every time I used that tool, I would preface it with the, because I had the military background, I'd preface it with the military experience. And I'd say," Look. A lot of times, in war fighting, people go out. Somebody gets killed by friendly fire."

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And then you all come back into a room, and you're trying to debrief that. There's a lot of emotion in the room.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: So this process is designed to leave emotion at the door.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And just deal with the concrete facts. Because let's face it, we have to go back out there into the battlefield, right now.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And we want to be better. We don't want to repeat what we just experienced.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: What are we going to learn from that? And now let's get back out there, what are we going to do? And that's the way we approached it. Not everything, but major things we went through. We had an after action review after every board meeting, every major event. When there were catastrophes. The school shooting, once, we did several of these things we went through.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And those always helped us to lead our community, and plus it serves as a third point. So as a leader, you don't want to get shot.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: So if you're in front of a large group of people, you have to have a piece of paper behind you.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: To be your third point. And you got to direct all that energy and attention to real outcomes, that people could say," Hey, we're doing something about this."

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: So.

Dane Groeneveld: I'd never heard of the third point before, but now I know what it means.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah. There you go.

Dane Groeneveld: You talked about when you had these groups together, bringing the union leaders in, it being all about serving the public. That's an interesting customer to have in mind in some respects, because the public is so broad and diverse-

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: ...and multifaceted.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: Tell me a little bit more about how that translates. How do you stay close to the public, and the key groups in the public, to understand the mission of the school from year to year?

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah. And this is just this old school management by walking around. I mean-

Dane Groeneveld: Right.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...just getting out to our parent group meetings, our community based organization meetings.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Talking to people. Going out to school sites. Meeting with students. Pulling students aside, and talking to them. Talking to their families when they walk in the parking lot.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Living in the community-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...where the school district was. And running at people in the shopping store. And being willing to take the time just to talk to people. Talking to the custodian on the campus and saying," Hey, do you have everything you need to do your job? How's things going around here?"

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Really caring, no matter where people sat in the organization, or in or out of the organization. They had the same level of respect, same level of voice, same level of input. Often, we would take the input of somebody that had absolutely no monetary benefit, per se, to the organization, but they helped us improve and get better.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Sometimes we had advocates pound on the board meeting, or boardroom. And I said," That's free assessment. Free auditing." I said,-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: "Take advantage of it. There's a grain of truth in there somewhere. Something's-"

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: "...not working in our system that's causing this emotion. So how do we capitalize on that and build on that?" And I think, just treating people as you want them to become.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And living in a way, collectively with people, that honors and honors everybody, no matter their race, their creed, their belief systems. Same as yours or different. Color of their skin. I mean, to me, that's America.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: That's what's made us great, and when we can be a fantastic country when we emulate those models.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah. The community's something, if I think back early on my life, I took a lot from community. You'd learn. You would have fun with, whether there was a festival, or a sporting event, or whatever else. And the more I mature in life and develop deeper networks, deeper skills, the more I realize that community is both a great teacher, but also... It's kind of like working with the kids that we talked about before, it's very rewarding to be out in that community, and really getting a sense of what's going on and where you can bring some of your skills back to kind of pay it forward.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Absolutely.

Dane Groeneveld: And it's exciting. I think, now more than ever before, with technology, that you can have... It's not just the walk through the yard, or bump into people in the store. I mean, there can be so much-

Dr. Dale Marsden: That's exactly right.

Dane Groeneveld: ...that's activity in the community.

Dr. Dale Marsden: That's exactly right. And tapping into all those mechanisms was important. I remember one year, using our social media, once we got our graduation results. And I really wanted to champion our team, because it's a lot of hard work to go from the lowest performing larger of a district in the state to one of the larger performing.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: But we quantified it. We got that message out publicly. Because the cost of one dropout to our community was$250, 000, over the lifetime.

Dane Groeneveld: Wow.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And when we quantified the sheer number of students where that change, that delta existed between graduate to... So not only did you go from a student who was not graduating, who would be a deficit to the community, now you're graduated. You're going to add value.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: We would share that economic data out loud with our families, our community, to say," Hey, look. We are an economic... This work is creating an economic driver." When you go from a community with 66.3% of students graduating from high school-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...before Dale came and before our team got activated, to after where we're at 93 0.6% of students graduating, that's a big delta.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: To see of a productive citizenry contributing to society. And that message went out broadly. I talked about it everywhere I went.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And in all forms, social media and so forth. So I think that's another effective part of being a team, is getting your message out.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Often it is said," If you don't get your message out, no one else will."

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And so being able to share that a lot, and letting people know," Hey, we're getting better around here."

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: "And I want you to know because..." And what we saw is when I first started board meetings, our team, the board, would see a packed boardroom of angry people. And we actually had meetings in the year eight, when there was almost, this is before COVID, we had almost no one in the boardroom.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Very few people. And to me that's a sign that," Hey, everybody's saying you're doing what you need to be doing." You're doing it right.

Dane Groeneveld: Trust inaudible, yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: inaudible. Yeah. That's exactly right.

Dane Groeneveld: That's really neat.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: Well, you've given me plenty of great material there on leading good teams. You clearly did a great job there, Dale. As we think more towards your current shift, we've had some interesting conversations on what it is to move from an 8, 000 staff organization that you're leading, to a startup.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah. That's right.

Dane Groeneveld: So tell us a little bit more about your journey into the world of a startup.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah. I'll tell you, it hasn't been easy, and I have a whole new respect for people who have been in the private sector now than ever before. So, yeah. 27 years in the public sector, and now starting a company, Tomorrow's Talent, from the ground up has been no small task.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And so, Dan, I got to thank you for your support, and help, and wisdom, because what I've recognized, I can't do this alone.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: So, similar approach. I've really tried to surround myself with people that know more than I do, so I can tap into them and learn also. And I know I can't be all these things, and so I have to find the right people to help me, because I want to go at the speed of vision.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And things don't work like that.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: You've got to grow. Go slow to go fast. And so that's what we're doing now, but it's going well. We're small, but we're mighty. We're beginning to start doing some good work. And our vision is to be able to touch a million students, and get them engaged in the work- based learning. Touch the real world. So that's what we're doing. We're connecting education systems to the real world of work.

Dane Groeneveld: Yep.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Doing that at every level. K- 12, community colleges, 4 universities. Very excited about that. The education system leaders we work with are hungry for this.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: They really do want their students to authentically engage and connect in what's next for them.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: They want nothing more. It's just how to get there, they don't know how to navigate that.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And so that's what we're doing now.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah. It's really neat.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: I think it's very timely. And the way that you're doing it, starting in the schools and then bringing the employment opportunities, the training opportunities, in is very unique. Because the hard part, I think, in this world is knowing how to work with schools. And obviously, there's always difficulties in how you do that appropriately. We're dealing with minors. There's a lot more legislation and scrutiny.

Dr. Dale Marsden: That's right.

Dane Groeneveld: So what you're bridging is this knowledge, this network, there in the schools, out into the wider community ecosystem. I'm very honored to have the chance to work with you on it, and I'm excited to see where we can bring some more of those connections.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: Because it could make a huge impact.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Oh, it's mutual.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: I'm grateful. So, thank you very much.

Dane Groeneveld: I already knew that.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: With the next six months, 12 months, a year, I think you've got some pretty clear pathways. If you look way out there, five, 10 years, you've gone slow. Now you're going really fast. What would success look like for you? What might look really different, in terms of the way that kids are having that authentic, real world experience, building that muscle memory of what it feels like to get into a workplace, and do good work, and be rewarded for it?

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah. I think for me, the vision would be that this becomes, much like in Switzerland and other countries, this becomes the new normal for us.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Where we start to see, hey, there's actually an entirely untapped and unmined potential in the wisdom of our adolescents and youth. We're not tapping into the knowledge that exists. And I'm convinced if wise companies will begin to play in the sandbox with our youth-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...they're going to bring innovation and ideas like they've never seen before.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Because they exist. I mean, the students can come up with stuff that we're just not thinking about.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And we don't sometimes honor and cherish the wisdom of our adolescents.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And so, 16 to 24 is that kind of age range that is the sweet spot right now. And so, I see in the vision, as I mentioned, a million students. And that to me means a whole lot of school districts, and a whole lot of employers-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: ...are embracing this as a new normal. That, hey, we just do this around here. When we're talking about building our workforce, we're thinking today about tomorrow's talent.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: We're planning today for tomorrow's talent. Those are the things that we have to think about. We can't just think about, hey, I've got a position that's open. I need to fill it. I've got to start thinking ahead. So business leaders that are wise are thinking five, 10 years ahead, and us likewise. And then the fruit of this labor should be that our employers are beginning to think," Okay. I want to see my talent down in middle school."

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: I want to see my developing talent.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And then as they grow and we've interacted with them, by the time... I never have to worry again about where I'm getting talent from, because I've already got a pipeline established. And it's just-

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: That to me would be no small joy.

Dane Groeneveld: I love not only thinking about that pipeline of talent, but what you touched on as far as innovation and ideas for innovation.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Oh, yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: Because you're right. These young people now have got so much of the world at their fingertips.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Oh, without a doubt.

Dane Groeneveld: And we haven't even really seen things like the metaverse play out-

Dr. Dale Marsden: Right.

Dane Groeneveld: ...where they're going to be able to walk around our businesses-

Dr. Dale Marsden: Oh, yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: ...virtually.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Right.

Dane Groeneveld: But you just think the insights.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: And those insights could drive product development. They could drive the way that we work. I mean, we've seen how much changes come through coding.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Well, you think about this. They're unencumbered.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: So, we're thinking about family.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Colleges. Mortgage. Houses. All these other things that are going through... Marriage.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Life.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And so, we're encumbered. We got a lot of stuff going through our head, and we're trying to run successful companies. Now, you take a young person who's just getting started. The whole world is, I mean, they are full of ideas.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Dr. Dale Marsden: They just need a place to release those ideas.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Dr. Dale Marsden: And why don't we just wake up and give them an opportunity to do that. That's my thinking.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah. And that's exciting. I think it can be very rewarding for all parties.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Oh, yeah. No question. No question.

Dane Groeneveld: That's neat. Well, it's been a great conversation. It's flown by.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah, it sure has.

Dane Groeneveld: How do people best find you-

Dr. Dale Marsden: Oh, I hate this.

Dane Groeneveld: ...Dale, if they want to learn more about what you're doing? Or be part of some of Tomorrow's Talents project?

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah. Thanks so much. Yeah. So you can reach out to us on our website, tomorrowstalent. org, or me directly, Dale @ tomorrowstalent. org. It be fine too.

Dane Groeneveld: Great.

Dr. Dale Marsden: I'd love to talk with anybody about all this.

Dane Groeneveld: Very cool.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Yeah.

Dane Groeneveld: We'll do this again soon.

Dr. Dale Marsden: Hey, thanks so much, Dan. Thanks for the invite. It's been a pleasure.

Dane Groeneveld: You bet. Thanks.

Dr. Dale Marsden: All right.

DESCRIPTION

Dr. Dale Marsden joins host Dane Groeneveld on The Future of Teamwork podcast to discuss his work as the superintendent of the San Bernadino City Unified School District. Dr. Dale also highlights how he is working to lead Tomorrow's Talent, an organization focused on providing quality education and learning paths that lead to employment opportunities for young adults.


Topics of conversation:

  • [00:38] Dr. Dale's background in education
  • [03:46] Community partnerships and providing pathways in education to internships in fields students are interested in
  • [10:19] Cybersecurity apprenticeship in the San Bernadino City Unified Royal Valley High School
  • [15:25] Communities and communication systems that encourage learner success
  • [19:04] Paying interns and apprentices, and effects of community engagement programs
  • [26:05] Reversing a toxic culture slowly and building trust
  • [31:55] Addressing questions, comments, concerns, and kudos
  • [34:47] The After Action Review
  • [38:43] Engaging and informing the community, and using social media to get your message out there
  • [41:42] Leading a start up and what the experience spend like
  • [44:22] A vision for the future where students are rewarded for good work and enter a workplace
  • [46:53] Giving young people a place to release their ideas


Today's Host

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Dane Groeneveld

|HUDDL3 Group CEO

Today's Guests

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Dr. Dale Marsden

|Founder, Tomorrow's Talent, LLC