Cultivating Team Resilience and Empowerment with Rachel Llanes

Speaker 1: Welcome to The Future of Teamwork podcast, where we explore cutting- edge strategies to keep teams human- centered, drive innovation, and empower you with the tools and insights needed to help your teams excel and thrive in today's rapidly changing world. Your host is Dane Groeneveld, a seasoned expert with over 20 years of experience in enhancing team dynamics and innovation. Today's episode is a treasure trove for those aiming to elevate their team dynamics and personal growth. We're joined by Rachel Llanes, a master resilience trainer and the founder of The Gardin Group, who will share her invaluable insights on fostering environments where individuals and teams can thrive. Whether you're seeking to strengthen your leadership skills, enhance team cohesion, or understand the fundamental physiological needs that drive peak performance, this episode is your guide to unlocking the full potential of your team. Rachel's journey from marriage family therapy to transforming team dynamics within the US military and corporate boardrooms, illustrates her profound understanding of the science of human flourishing and peak performance. Her work in creating healthy environments for individuals to thrive has made her a pivotal figure in the realm of team development. In this episode, they'll explore first the ABCs of flourishing, autonomy, belonging, and competence. Discover the psychological needs that drive individual and team performance, and learn strategies to foster an environment where people feel respected, empowered, and challenged. Second, build belonging in 30 to 60 seconds. Gain insights into the art of amplifying joy and creating a sense of belonging quickly and effectively, fostering stronger, more authentic connections within your team. Finally, they'll discuss practicing and building empathy. Understand the crucial role of empathy in team dynamics and master a practical step- by- step approach to practicing and building empathy, essential for nurturing a supportive and collaborative team culture. So teamwork makes the dream work, and we are here to inspire your next collaborative breakthrough. Gather your team or put on your headphones and let's dive in together.

Dane Groeneveld: Welcome to The Future of Teamwork podcast. My name's Dane Groeneveld, CEO of Huddl3 Group, and today I'm joined by Rachel Llanes. Rachel is the people problem solver, the founder of The Gardin Group, and she's also been a master resilience trainer. So some really cool stories to share today and it'll be great to learn more about the work Rachel does in helping people and teams flourish. So welcome to the show, Rachel.

Rachel Llanes: Dane, thanks so much for having me.

Dane Groeneveld: You bet. So I've had the pleasure of having this conversation with you before.

Rachel Llanes: You have. I know, it's like 2.0, we get to do it over again.

Dane Groeneveld: That's it. I'm super excited for today. But let's start from the beginning. How did you come to be doing this wonderful work in and around people and teams?

Rachel Llanes: You know the famous saying, the dots don't make sense looking forward, but boy, do they make sense looking back. My background is in marriage family therapy. I was trained as a clinician to help families flourish, and in a past life I was working towards licensure as an intern therapist in San Diego when I met my husband, who was at the time going through Navy SEAL training. And we ended up falling in love, and getting married, and he got orders out to Hawaii. And for any of your listeners who have lived in Hawaii or tried to work in Hawaii, it's a tough market to find work in. And I found myself being funneled out of the family therapy room and into working with the military population. And I was working with sailors and soldiers that were failing their physical fitness tests. And I was a personal trainer through grad school, so I put that hat back on when we moved to Hawaii. And a lot of our conversations had to do with how they were failing to flourish as human beings, and how that was impacting their physical health and wellbeing. Then I found myself working at the Army Wellness Center as a stress management expert, training soldiers how to do biofeedback, how to do heart rate variability training so that they could perform at peak levels under stress. And then I got recruited by the Army's massive resilience program, and I started working as a Master Resilience Trainer- Performance Expert for the military. And I wasn't really sure how my clinical background as a marriage family therapist would transfer into the US Army's war room. And I was really surprised to see that the same issues that got in the way of families flourishing, of connecting, of trusting one another, of being authentic with each other, of really operating optimally as a unit, was showing up in the US military as well. So I worked with a three- star general, at the time he was a two- star, on how can we create an environment here on this base where our soldiers and their families are flourishing? And I loved that work, I did it for the better part of the last decade. And then I found myself being plucked out of the war room and dropped into the US boardrooms, speaking on the science of human flourishing and what it has to do with peak performance at work. And in 2022, I started The Gardin Group based upon all of my research about the nature of motivation and of human flourishing. And it's the plant analogy, which is human beings are like plants. If I bring a plant into your office, Dane, and your plant fails to flourish. It doesn't grow, it's wilted, it's unhealthy. We don't blame the plant, because we know it's in that plant's nature to grow, and to thrive, provided it's in a healthy environment. So we take a look at the water, we take a look at the humidity, we take a look at the natural sunlight in the room. That is a beautiful analogy for human nature. When we, as human beings, are in healthy environments, we thrive and we're self- motivated, we're self- driven, we're self- starters. And it's really important that leaders, especially leaders of teams, understand the environmental conditions required for people to flourish. And that is what we do at The Gardin Group, we teach senior leaders, such as yourself, these three key environmental conditions that organizations need so that their people can flourish as human beings and do great work for the company or organization that they're a part of.

Dane Groeneveld: That is so fantastic, and I'm excited to dive into the ABCs, but just to touch on a couple of those points that you share in your introduction. The fact that the dots kind of make sense when you look back at them, starting with family is fascinating because family is a team of sorts.

Rachel Llanes: Absolutely.

Dane Groeneveld: But they're a team that you kind of stuck with, right? So you can't just determine, well, you can't easily determine without a lot of cost, just to kind of jump ship. A lot of people have, through this great recession, great resignation period that we came through with the pandemic, and so it kind of forces you to look at where people are at and how to help each other flourish. So the fact that you've started there, moved into a high performance realm of the US military, and now landed in the boardroom, you're weaving together some fascinating human dynamics.

Rachel Llanes: Yes. It's interesting, everywhere we go, there we are. And the same problems I see in the family unit are the same problems I saw in the military unit. And the same problems I saw in the military units are the same problems I'm seeing on teams in corporate America. And so again, the dots made no sense looking forward, I had a master's in marriage family therapy, and then I started working as a personal trainer with the US military, and then I was a resilience trainer, and then I started my own company. None of that made sense in the moment, but looking back, every random stepping stone led to the cultivation of this simple system of teaching leaders the soft skills that they need. We have distilled the science of soft skills into simple when/ then statements, that our leaders, such as yourself, can intentionally implement in the right moment, in the right way, so their people, their teams flourish.

Dane Groeneveld: That's neat. So as we jump into the A, B, and C, I do want to thank you because having had this conversation before, I've been putting a lot of this to work in my family unit, whether it was my six- year- old, my 10- year- old, 12- year- old, my wife. Some of the conversations that we've had using these three simple skills have been really impactful. So for all the listeners out there, definitely be tuning into what you could do with your teams from some of what Rachel and I are going to walk through, but also family members, church members, sports team members. This is some real magic in a bottle here, so let's jump into A.

Rachel Llanes: Let's do it, Dane. So A, the ABCs of human flourishing, that apply both at home, with your family, and at work. A stands for autonomy. And autonomy is our basic psychological requirement to feel respected and empowered in the rooms we're in. And I don't have to tell your listeners that when someone disrespects us or disempowers us, we feel a certain way about it.

Dane Groeneveld: Mm- hmm.

Rachel Llanes: What emotion do you think is triggered in us when someone disrespects us or disempowers us?

Dane Groeneveld: I think it's fear. I think for me it's fear, which drives anger, and defensiveness, and all sorts of things, but fear is the first one that jumps to mind.

Rachel Llanes: Yeah. The two key reactions are fear and anger. And anger is a secondary emotion, and that is... Anger is observable, anger is behavioral. We can read it on someone's body, on their face, on their energy. Anger is merely a message that autonomy has been thwarted.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah. And you're right, you see it too. You do see anger, whether it's in someone's body language, them tightening up, or their tone of voice changing. Where fear is often a little bit more subtle, isn't it?

Rachel Llanes: Yeah. Fear is often, you shut down, you get quiet. Some people have learned they've been socialized to, when they feel anger, they shut down.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Rachel Llanes: Right? They conceal the real reactions, they put on a mask to be professional, especially in a power dynamic, especially at work when you are the direct report of someone who just disrespected you and disempowered you, and maybe the promotion you've been striving for is dependent upon their endorsement, you are more likely to mask that anger. But here's what we know, anger and all of the other unpleasant negative emotions we can experience, are designed merely to give us a signal that something in our environment is off. And we're supposed to empower ourselves to self- advocate for the correction of that environmental condition that is violating our basic right to be respected and empowered in the rooms we're in.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah. So it's actually dangerous if you're masking it because you're not self- advocating, you're not letting other people know, you're continuing an environment that isn't healthy for you.

Rachel Llanes: It's tremendously dangerous. I'll argue that being fake is fatal. For the individual, being fake, wearing a mask, pretending she's happy, or everything's fine, or she agrees with the plan when she really doesn't, she is going to suffer physically, her health will suffer. And so will the team because authentic tension, when you're toiling with an idea and really working towards getting alignment on a plan, that's where the innovation happens. That's where the problem spotting and problem solving happens. It's really important that when people disagree at work and in families, they voice it. Now, how we voice it is what often gets us into trouble. But living a life of authenticity is really an essential need. And when we feel disempowered or disrespected by someone, it's very important that we see that anger, or that fear, or whatever it is you feel when you think you're being disempowered or disrespected, that you take purposeful action to resolving whatever's causing that.

Dane Groeneveld: I like that. And taking purposeful action, it kind of ties into that whole theme of the one thing you can control is your response to the emotion. You can't control them, but you can control your response. So how do you take that action?

Rachel Llanes: I love your language here. You just said the one thing you can control is your response to that emotion. Cognitive behavioral science has shown that we cannot control our emotions. They are trigger reactions. And it happens almost simultaneously. And the key with maturing as a human being, whether we're talking about your six- year- old, your 10- year- old, your 12- year- old, or professionals in a professional setting, the key to maturing is responding to that emotion in a professional way that doesn't shove it down, but doesn't blow up about it either.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Rachel Llanes: So this is getting at how important it is that we're educated on soft skills. The soft stuff really is the tough stuff. How do you communicate your anger in an appropriate way that doesn't make a bad situation worse? These are the questions that team members and leaders must be asking themselves.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes. I like that. So how does that leader then, or team member, when they're realizing that fear and anger is boiling up because of the way that they've been treated in a working relationship, how does that play out in a role play or a method that you bring through this autonomy lens?

Rachel Llanes: In my conversations with the executives that I coach, we role play authentic transparency, which is just, " You know, boss, at that last meeting I really felt like you weren't listening to my concerns about this plan, and it left me feeling disrespected. It left me feeling like you don't... It seemed like you don't value my opinion. And our relationship is really important to our ability to work well together. And I just need to clear the air with you about this issue that came up for us." Say what you mean, don't say it mean. When it comes to assertive communication, people tend to teeter towards passive, where they're indirect or silent about the issue, or they're violent, they're too aggressive, they're too in your face. And both styles of communication, passive and aggressive, fail to get the message delivered. So role playing is a great strategy with someone you know, like, and trust, whether that's your spouse at home or a colleague that you trust. But if you're feeling disrespected or disempowered by someone at work, that is having an impact on you, on your performance, on the team, on the culture, on the environment. And it's very important that you advocate for yourself by appropriately communicating that you've been disrespected and that's not okay.

Dane Groeneveld: Mm-hmm. Yep. And if you're the manager, is there a way that you can self- check on, hey, are my behaviors... I'm running fast, I'm going in and out of meetings, I'm just saying things how I see it, but how do I check that I'm not causing that for people who choose to mask and depress the emotion?

Rachel Llanes: Well, that's such an important question. And self- awareness is a team sport, that's why it's so important that managers have psychological safety established with their team members, so that their team members feel safe enough to say, " Hey, I really felt disrespected on that board meeting, or at that call, or with the client. I didn't appreciate the way you spoke to me, or how you talked over me, or interrupted me, or disagreed with my idea without any explanation as to why you were disagreeing." If a manager who's listening to this podcast right now has not had someone confront them in the last 90 days about the relationship about how that manager is communicating with them and showing up with them, I would really encourage the manager to do a self- audit. How am I communicating respect and empowerment to each individual member of my team?

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Rachel Llanes: That perspective- taking is one way that a manager can do that gut check and evaluate if they are thwarting or supporting their team members' autonomy needs.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah. That's cool. I like that 90- day window because I bet you there's a lot of leaders, and I've certainly been in that 90- day window myself a number of times in my career where actually people aren't bringing you that feedback.

Rachel Llanes: Well, it's so important that we have a discussion around power when we're talking about transparency. Power is like gravity, it exists in every room we walk in. And when someone in the org chart is of a different opinion than you, and you are above them in the org chart, you're less likely to be open and transparent about a different perspective. Or maybe you have some effective criticism for how that leader showed up on that call, or did that presentation, or managed that client interaction. You are less likely to give voice to that feedback because power is acting upon you. And so power differential awareness is really important for people in positions of authority to understand. If you have authority, it's very important that you give consistent safety signals by saying things like, " I could be wrong. What do you all think? I might be missing something. How could I have done that better? There's something I know I could have done differently to have gotten a more optimal outcome. Does anyone have any ideas?" So eliciting feedback, seeking feedback, and then the key is, this is the essential piece, when someone dares greatly.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Rachel Llanes: And gives that feedback, they experiment with how trustworthy you are.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah.

Rachel Llanes: You better lean into that feedback. You better not get defensive because defensiveness destroys connection.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah. I can see that. I've lived through a few of those moments on both sides of the coin. No, that's fascinating. And it's a general theme of curiosity, right? Because as a leader, if you're curious, if you ask other people for their help, then you're probably going to hear some of the things that they weren't ordinarily going to bring up because you're inviting them in a safe way. And I would imagine also, just from a gratitude standpoint, we're living in this information age now where the leader isn't the only one with the knowledge, and sometimes not the only one with the authority. So by inviting other people in to be part of the shared leadership or the shared ideation, people feel appreciated because actually they weren't instructed to do something in a given way, they were invited to be part of that spotting problem solving exercise.

Rachel Llanes: Yes. And inviting them in builds buy- in.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Rachel Llanes: It inspires personal commitment to the plan because they feel like they've had a voice in the creation of the plan.

Dane Groeneveld: I love that. So that's autonomy. Is there anything we're missing on autonomy? I've got a pretty good read on it.

Rachel Llanes: Yes, you do. So the final thing I want to say about autonomy is, we all fall somewhere along an autonomy supportive continuum, as leaders, as team members. And on the end of one extreme of this continuum, we have the style of leadership where there's too much flexibility, not enough structure. And at The Gardin Group we call that lazy leader.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes. I like it.

Rachel Llanes: This is where our laissez- faire leaders are, where they fail to uphold the standard, they don't hold their people accountable for whatever reason. Maybe they want to be liked. Maybe they're uncomfortable with confrontation. Maybe they are doing the bad behavior themselves, so they feel it'd be hypocritical of them to hold their members accountable. Lazy leadership is providing too much flexibility and not enough structure. That's one way we can thwart autonomy. Autonomy actually requires structure. Our people want to know what is required of them to be successful here. Like my Gardiners, they want to know, what are my expectations of their involvement in my projects? I'm very, very clear about the constraints, and I keep it as broad as possible, but they know what the structure is and that structure makes them feel safe, secure, and confident that if they execute, they will be successful. That gives them energy, that gives them confidence. Lazy leaders fail to provide that structure. On the other end of the continuum, we have leaders that provide too much structure and not enough flexibility. These are where our micromanagers live.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes.

Rachel Llanes: These folks don't minimize the constraints, they maximize the constraints. And they curate an environment of the prison of compliance, if you will, where they leverage pressure, threats, punishments to coerce, force, manipulate their team members into compliance. And they lack the flexibility required. Inspired leadership is the only style of leadership that we can embody that amplifies autonomy, that leaves people feeling respected and empowered. And that style can be summed up in the sweet spot of structure. These are the expectations. These are the contract deliverables. These are the musts of what you're going to do here in your job, in this role, with this project. And in addition to those guardrails, if you will, people are provided as much flexibility as possible for their own decision- making, their own creativity, their own innovation, and that empowers them to take ownership and feel like the follow- through of what they're there to do is self- determined, and therefore, they feel autonomous. They feel respected and empowered.

Dane Groeneveld: I really like that, and I'm going to repeat it. You said that inspired leadership amplifies autonomy, so that's got a huge multiplier effect through teams.

Rachel Llanes: It does. I'm sure you've been in a room, Dane, where everyone was just in their sweet spot, and people were communicating synergistically, they were riffing off of one another, they were taking an idea and making it an innovation. And everyone in the room felt like they were being heard, they were being respected, they were being empowered to be a participant in the creative process. The energy of that room is palpable, and so is its opposite.

Dane Groeneveld: And the opposite I've been in, where you're in a room where goals aren't clear, roles and responsibilities aren't clear, there's lots of noise, lots of gossip, lots of defensiveness, frustration, because we're in the middle of this huge organizational restructure or whatever it might be, new product launch, and no one knows who's in charge and what you can and can't do.

Rachel Llanes: The difference between someone in a position of authority and a leader, is the provision of that structure. That is so key because I talk to employees when we come in, and we put an organization through our soft program, and I interview employees about their experience, many of them are so anxious because they have no idea what's really expected of them. One leader says this, another leader says this, another peer heard this. And there's so much mind reading going on, employees are burning through their batteries, just spinning their wheels like a hamster, trying to figure out, what's required of me here? I have no idea what the rules are, so that I can win this game called life at work.

Dane Groeneveld: No, I love that. I think it's a great starting point for any business, and I can't imagine there are any organizations out there that don't have room for improvement in that space.

Rachel Llanes: Well, I think cultural mastery is an asymptote, meaning that you're constantly striving, striving for it, but you never arrive. There's always room to cultivate an environment where people feel respected and empowered, where people feel psychologically safe to be their authentic selves, to disagree, to offer criticism. And then you have employees leave and new team members come in, so it's a different team.

Dane Groeneveld: It is, yeah.

Rachel Llanes: Different team member means different team, and so it's-

Dane Groeneveld: Or a new project, the new technology, just everything shifts.

Rachel Llanes: Right. We're constantly striving, never arriving, but the goal for amplifying autonomy should be inspired leadership, which is that sweet spot between structure and flexibility.

Dane Groeneveld: Very cool.

Rachel Llanes: Maximize choice, minimize constraints. In a nutshell. If you want to amplify autonomy on your team, maximize choice, minimize constraints.

Dane Groeneveld: Oh, man, I've got some notes already. So that's autonomy, where do we go with B?

Rachel Llanes: We should begin with belonging, with just a simple distinction between fitting in and belonging. When I feel like I belong with you, Dane, I feel valued and cared for as a human being by you. I feel safe enough to voice my opinions. I feel empowered to offer feedback. And just really be my true self with you. I don't have to walk on eggshells, I get to be me around you.

Dane Groeneveld: Yep.

Rachel Llanes: That is a basic biological need that we have. We need to feel like we belong, we need to feel valued as we truly are by the people we're interacting with. Fitting in is not belonging. Fitting in is, I chameleonize, I don't even know if it's a word, but I'm going to make it up, so go with me. I become a chameleon and I try to figure out, Dane, what version of me do I need to be in order to fit in with you? But innovation, creativity, peak performance, only comes from a psychological state of authenticity. So belonging is, you're not only allowed to be your authentic self, where you feel valued and cared for as you are. Environments that prioritize belonging require that you are.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes. And how does an environment require authenticity? How does it really prioritize that belonging in terms of rituals, rites of passage, ways of working? How does that all come together?

Rachel Llanes: Well, one of the first things we do with companies is we make sure that they have a conflict resolution framework in place. If in- processing doesn't have some component of when conflict arises, which is the nature of human beings in the act of living in proximity with each other, it's going to happen, conflict's inevitable. This is the tool for conflict resolution.

Dane Groeneveld: Awesome.

Rachel Llanes: Because conflict delayed is conflict compounded. I don't know who said that, I love that phrase, I can't claim credit for it, but conflict delayed is conflict compounded. So one of the rituals an organization, a family, can implement to ensure people feel valued and cared for, is managing conflict well in a way that resolves the issue and strengthens the bond. And that's the key, you resolve the issue. And that's important, but you also strengthen the bond. And in terms of the social sciences, they have identified two key moments outside of conflict, which we could have an entire podcast on conflict resolution. There's two moments where we make or break belonging with those we love and lead, and that is when someone chooses us to share their good news with, and when someone chooses us to share their tough stuff with.

Dane Groeneveld: Interesting. How do each of those play out?

Rachel Llanes: So imagine you're in the hallways of your company and one of your employees comes up to you with news of their cruise that they just went on. They just went on a cruise through Alaska and it was the dream of a lifetime, and the way you respond in that moment, science has shown, will make or break belonging. And we have four tendencies, four styles of responding that we're prone to, and only one of those responding styles builds connection.

Dane Groeneveld: Oh, wow. So you got a 25% chance of getting it right.

Rachel Llanes: If you don't know the science. But once you know better, you must do better, right? So all your listeners are going to be responsible for getting it right from now on. When someone chooses you to share their good news with, they got a promotion, they've been trying to conceive and they just found out a baby's on the way, they went on a vacation. Whatever their good news is, whatever they have chosen to share with you, the key is that you respond in a way that amplifies their joy. And here's how you do that. You show genuine interest and you ask a question or two that allows them to elaborate on their good news. So before we started recording, you told me about the cruise your family just got back from. That would look like me saying, " Oh my gosh, Dane, fantastic. Was this your family's first cruise?" And then you'd answer, and then I'd listen, and based upon what you shared, I may ask one more question and then say, " I'm so glad it was a positive experience for you." That's all it takes. It takes 30 to 60 seconds of lending yourself to someone in that moment, where they're bringing you good news, they're excited, they're happy, something positive has happened in their life, you need to respond in a way that amplifies their joy.

Dane Groeneveld: Love it. What are the other three ways that you could respond that aren't correct?

Rachel Llanes: One is being a conversation killer, which is being distracted and showing understated support. It's kind of like the thumbs up button on Facebook. Your spouse comes home and they tell you something good that happened at work and you just say, " Oh, cool, hun." And the conversation dies. Dead. The other way you can do it is by hijacking the conversation. You make it about you. You shift the focus from their good news to you. So maybe in your cruising example, instead of asking you questions about your experience, I start talking about the last cruise I went on and how it was so amazing for Cody and I. I'm hijacking the conversation. That's the second way we can have a belonging fail. The third and final way is instead of amplifying the person's joy, we kill it by having a negative focus, by turning their good stuff into bad stuff. And we're most prone to doing this with those we love, which is very sad. Kids, yes. Now, Dane, you're a parent, I'm not. Why are we most prone to killing the joy of our kids when they share their good news with us? What's going on there?

Dane Groeneveld: Generally, we're wrapped up, certainly, if I'm speaking for myself, wrapped up in something that I need to get done, my own stress. And it comes along and I'm like, " Not now." Or, " I'm really glad, go do it again three times." Or whatever. And you're not there for them, you're self- invested.

Rachel Llanes: That would fall into the category of conversation killer, where you're distracted and you kind of brush it off. Joy killing would be, I know one of your sons plays soccer and rugby. Let's say he makes the rugby team that he wanted to make, and he comes home, and he's so excited, and he's like, " Dad, I made the team." And you respond with, " Oh, boy, son, I don't know if you're up for that challenge."

Dane Groeneveld: Oh, that's hard.

Rachel Llanes: "That team's pretty advanced. You're probably going to get hurt, are you sure you want to play for this team?"

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah, that's not a comfortable conversation at all.

Rachel Llanes: That is what we do to those we love, because often, we want to protect them, and that protection mechanism is triggered in our brains. My sister called me five years ago and said, " Sis, I met a man, we're in love, and we're getting married." And I was like, " What? Are you crazy? How long have you been dating this guy? A month? You don't even know who he is." I heard her voice start at joy and get smaller and smaller and smaller, and she ended quiet, sad, and small. My sister, since we were little, has dreamed of two things, getting married and becoming a mom. And I was the person she chose to call. I was her first call. And what I didn't know at the time is she and her boyfriend had just found out they were pregnant, and expecting my nephew, who is now almost four and the absolute apple of my eye. But I killed her joy in that moment and I made a massive withdrawal from my belonging bank account with her that I'm still working to get back to where it was. So there are really important moments when people share their joy with us, and we must get it right. Even if we have concerns about the news. If you have concerns, circle back, have a conversation about your concerns in conversation B. But in conversation A, show genuine interest. Ask a question or two that lets them elaborate on their good news, and that will leave them feeling seen, heard, and celebrated by you. Which by the way, for an added bonus, not only will you increase your belonging with them in that moment, when you circle back to share your concerns about their news, they're going to be more likely to listen to what you had to say because in conversation A you amplified their joy.

Dane Groeneveld: That's really powerful.

Rachel Llanes: They'll be more likely to hear your concerns.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah, that's super powerful. It's a really strong framework to set out a conversation A, conversation B, because so often, as busy people, we try and deal with things in the moment quickly and keep moving, but that's not really giving true time and space for that individual.

Rachel Llanes: Yes. I play a video of a father and son, I'll be sure to pass it along to you so you can include it in the show notes, that shows our life is busy, it's fast- paced, and we're missing the moments, everyone. We're missing the moments with our most important people, our spouses, our husbands, our wives, our children, our friends, our family, our colleagues that we spend more time with during the work week than our families. We're distracted and we're missing the moment. And now that you know the skill of joy amplification that you must use when someone shares good news with you, I hope you miss less moments, Dane, and I trust that you will.

Dane Groeneveld: That's a great call to action. That's a really good one.

Rachel Llanes: Same goes to your listeners. I hope that you don't miss these opportunities because they're such valuable opportunities. And the good news is, if you get the moments that are going well right, when they have something to celebrate and they choose you to share it with and it goes well, what kind of news are they more likely to share with you, Dane?

Dane Groeneveld: Well, all news, but the bad news in particular. They're going to be much more trusting and that's going to help you get ahead of a lot with them.

Rachel Llanes: This is the how of leadership, in terms of soft skills. This is the strategy, this is the logic behind why you should take the time at work to lean in to the human being that is trying to share something that is causing them joy, it could have to do with their personal lives, but it could also have to do with work. They got that client, that white buffalo client you've been pining after for years. How you handle those moments that are going well really has an impact on how open and how trustworthy they will be with you when issues occur.

Dane Groeneveld: Yes. Yep. So that's a huge one. How do we then deal with the tough stuff when they do bring it to you?

Rachel Llanes: Yes. And that is the second skill of belonging, and it's the skill of empathy. A lot of us have a misperception about what empathy is, and me and my team at The Gardin Group, we're on a mission to provide people, especially at work, with a distinction between compassion and empathy. Compassion is a state of being. It is an emotional heart swelling for someone else's pain. Some people are born with a temperament, the personality of being more compassionate than others. We can't really change temperament. We can't really change personality. Empathy, on the other hand, is a communication skill, which means that anyone can master it with intentional practice. And so there are five steps to empathy. When someone brings you their tough stuff, their bad news, there's conflict with a friend and colleague at work and they don't know how to resolve it, or something didn't go well on a client call that day, or they didn't get that promotion they'd hoped for, they have a sick parent, sick child, financial issues, divorce, infidelity, their own health issues. There's a lot of bad stuff that happens to us in life. Life is brutal. If they choose you to share their tough stuff with, they've come to you and they're upset, step one is to strive to understand their story. You do not need to collect the facts, my friends. Husbands, I'm speaking to you right now, an advocacy for your wives. The source of our pain is always the story that we're telling ourselves about the facts. And developing emotional intelligence in ourselves is really important if you want to develop the skill, the communication skill of empathy. And step one is strive to understand their story. Once you think you've got the gist of it, step two, to building belonging with them in that moment, is to reflect your understanding of their story back to them. And then they'll let you know if you got it right, or they may offer you some distinctions that you missed. Exactly, an adjustment. Once you are aligned on the story that they're telling themselves, step three is to name what you think they're feeling and check in. So you may say something like, " Rachel, it sounds like you're feeling really frustrated about how he disrespected you on the call." That's my story. That's the story I'm telling myself. He disrespected me on the call. And you're perceiving that I'm frustrated. Then I get to say, " You know, Dane, that's exactly how I'm feeling. I'm feeling frustrated." Or I may say, " You know, I get why you're labeling me frustrated, but honestly, when I take a step back and I think about what I'm really feeling, Dane, I'm embarrassed. I'm embarrassed that he corrected me in front of everyone." And so what you're doing is you're helping me settle my snow globe. Our brains are like snow globes. And everyone listening, I want you to picture a snow globe, when we're in a state of calm, when we're a state of equanimity, our snow globes are settled. But when we're upset, when something bad has happened, it's chaos in there. It's a blizzard. We're all shook up. And when the empathizer reflects back our story, and the emotion they think we're feeling, and we get aligned on both, this is the story and this is what I'm feeling. Wow. We're untethered and all of a sudden this person we've chosen to support us in our pain helps us ground ourselves.

Dane Groeneveld: That is powerful. So where does that go for number four?

Rachel Llanes: Number four is really important for some people. You say, " It makes perfect sense you're feeling that way."

Dane Groeneveld: But you normalize it.

Rachel Llanes: Exactly. You normalize the pain. You make it okay. And by giving them permission, by validating, by normalizing their emotion, you help them settle their snow globe more because it's a safety signal, it's a belonging signal. You have seen their perspective on the situation. You may not agree with it. You may not agree with the story I'm telling myself, that he disrespected me on the call. You may not agree with me feeling embarrassed. You may think, " Rachel, why are you feeling embarrassed? There's no need for you to feel embarrassed." You may be thinking all of those things, but what I need to hear from you in this moment is you get my story, you get what I'm feeling, and it makes perfect sense that I'm feeling that way. That's the fourth step. The fifth step is where we take purposeful action by asking, what does support from me look like right now? What does support look like from me right now? In other words, how can I help? Do you want to go for a walk down the block? Do you want me to just listen? Do you want to share more? Do you want to problem solve? Do you want to explore possible solutions to the-

Dane Groeneveld: But you give them the agency, the choice.

Rachel Llanes: And that is also a way to amplify autonomy. You empower them to let you know what they need from you. Warning to your listeners, if the person in pain is still pretty shook up, and emotional, and they're lost in the sauce, they probably have no idea what they need from you. And that is why I encourage you to give them a menu of options. Give them two to three ideas that will further ground them to the present moment.

Dane Groeneveld: Yeah. That definitely works well with my son too. Sometimes you got to be like, " Hey, dude, do you want me to come in and help you with that right now, or do you just want a hug?" And sometimes he'll be like, like, "Hey, I just need a hug."

Rachel Llanes: As adults, most of us are, I'll speak for myself, I'm just a kid in an adult body. I'm just that person that wants that hug, wants that encouragement. I'll handle my problems. I'm an adult. I can think through to solutions once I digest this pain. And I think that if we treated human beings at work in more kind, compassionate ways, we'd have a lot less issues and we'd get over our issues a lot faster.

Dane Groeneveld: Totally.

Rachel Llanes: Because compassion's the key to connection.

Dane Groeneveld: And it ties back to that one you mentioned earlier on the, conflict delayed is conflict compounded, right? So whether it's conflict with an individual or conflict inside of an individual. I'm sensing that this autonomy and belonging are two circles of a Venn diagram, so does the C fit in in a similar way? Is there reinforcing tissue there?

Rachel Llanes: There is a bonding agent that connects autonomy, belonging, and competence, and it's all about trust. It's all about trust. Really feeling like what the other person is saying is genuine and true is really important, because a leader can try to provide structure and flexibility, but if their team thinks they're completely full of shit, it's not going to work. Autonomy will not be amplified, it'll be thwarted. Trust is the key. This leader is genuine, this leader means this. And not only does he or she mean what they say authentically, I'm also free to be me with them. The trust is the glue that binds these three key needs together. You nailed it, Dane.

Dane Groeneveld: That's super cool. Well, I'm going to come back to that bonding agent, but let's dive into competence then. So how does that play out for teams, team members?

Rachel Llanes: Competence is so key, and in working with a lot of burnt out employees, competence is a need that I see being thwarted across the country in businesses from every industry today. Competence is our basic need to feel optimally challenged. In other words, it's our need to feel effective and capable. And culturally, if I were to say my plumber is competent, you would know that I mean he knows how to do his job. But in the context of flourishing, in the context of our basic psychological needs, by competence I mean our self- evaluation of ability. So some folks can overestimate their objective skillset, their performance, and some folks underestimate their objective skill set and their performance. And competence is, in a nutshell, all about the relationship between the current challenge that you're facing, the degree of difficulty of the task you're doing, and your skill. And if the challenge is too great for your skill, or your skill is too great for your challenge, competence is thwarted.

Dane Groeneveld: Interesting. That's a really neat little formula.

Rachel Llanes: Yes, it's literally a framework I'll have to teach you and your team when we collaborate. But the job of a leader is to ensure that their people are inside the competence channel, which is that sweet spot where the challenge, the task, is just a hairline above that person's current skill level. So they're being challenged, they're growing, but they're also not overwhelmed, and they really thrive and grow. So that's competence in a nutshell. And as someone who wants to cultivate their own competence or the competence on their teams, it all comes down to feedback. It all comes down to feedback. If you want to cultivate competence, give effective praise for what someone is doing well, is doing effective, whether that's yourself or someone else, and be specific. Name the actual behaviors that led to that positive outcome, so they learn how to replicate it. And if they did something ineffective, give them that effective criticism that names the specific behaviors that led to the suboptimal outcome, so that they can apply it to next time. Having a posture of feed forward, especially when it comes to criticism, is really essential if you want someone to flourish while being imperfect as a human being. I am a recovering perfectionist, and I really struggle with this, full transparency, giving myself feedback about areas of improvement and not triggering shame. It's really tricky. And I know I love myself. I know I can trust myself. Imagine how hard it is to receive feedback from someone else that you don't feel respected or empowered by, or valued or cared about. That is how trust is the key that binds the ABCs of flourishing altogether.

Dane Groeneveld: I like that a lot. And you're right on the overestimate and underestimate based on a challenge or a project because I can be hugely overestimating my capabilities on this task and then underestimating on another task. It's not like one single state of being. So that's a huge thing for teams to be aware of.

Rachel Llanes: It's a huge thing for a team to be aware of. And in terms of actionable items for your audience, that would be a great conversation to have. Where are we overestimating our abilities as a team? And then where are we underestimating our abilities? Because the goal is to be accurate. Accurate in your identification of your strengths, which perfectionists are weakened. And accurate in your identification of your weaknesses, which people that suffer from Dunning- Kruger, if you will, from narcissistic tendencies, really struggle with. And that is why, again, I talk about how self- awareness is a team sport. We have to support each other, we have to say the tough stuff, we must communicate. Communication is the key soft skill that goes into cultivating an environment where people can flourish. I know that from my time in the family room as a therapist. I know that from my time in the war room as a resilience trainer. And I know that from my time at The Gardin Group as a consultant and trainer.

Dane Groeneveld: No, that's super neat. Well, I've got this great visual. We're going to have to work with Alicia to build a poster together when we release this show. But having the autonomy, the belonging, the competence, and the T in that intersection of the Venn is that bonding agent. It's so powerful and there are so many anecdotes here that you've shared today that I think are just not easy to remember, but once you intentionally focus on them, they're easy to start working on with your team right away. You don't have to do a whole bunch of work, you can start working on it right away with a one- on- one, in a team meeting, as I have at home with a family member. So I really appreciate the pragmatist... What's the word I'm looking for? The practical wisdom, and the pragmatist in you, and the work that you do. And if any of our guests want to find you, Rachel, and learn more about The Gardin Group and collaborating with you, how might they come to have that opportunity?

Rachel Llanes: Our website is a great place to start if they want to connect with The Gardin Group and what me and my team of eight superstars are doing. And then if they want to connect with me personally, connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm so passionate about getting this message out. I am an advocate of the ABCs, and I hope that your listeners remember and become disciples of this message because human beings deserve to flourish in our personal lives and at work, and these are the three things we need. They're so simple, but implementing the lessons, not so easy.

Dane Groeneveld: Not so easy. Yeah, you've got to build that framework.

Rachel Llanes: Not so easy. Yes.

Dane Groeneveld: All right. Well, I know we'll be collaborating together soon, Rachel. I really appreciate you taking the time today.

Rachel Llanes: It's an absolute pleasure, Dane. Thank you for having another conversation with me about the importance of people flourishing in life and at work.

Dane Groeneveld: It was only better the second time.

Rachel Llanes: I agree. I agree completely.

Dane Groeneveld: All right. Thanks, Rachel.

Rachel Llanes: Thank you.

Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us. Remember that by embracing vulnerability, trusting our intuition, and approaching challenges with compassion, we not only strengthen our teams, but also pave the way for a future where collaboration thrives. If you're hungry for more insights, strategies, and research on collaboration, head over to thefutureofteamwork. com. There, you can join our mailing list to stay updated with the latest episodes and get access to exclusive content tailored to make your team thrive. Together, we can build the future of teamwork. Until next time.