Equal Opportunities and Leadership Empowerment with Amy Landry
Dane: Welcome to the Future of Teamwork podcast. My name's Dane Groeneveld, CEO of HUDDL3 Group. Today I have Amy Landry joining me. Amy's the program manager for the Women's Leadership Academy at Loyola University, New Orleans. Welcome Amy.
Amy: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Dane: It's a pretty cool job title you have right now. I'm excited to learn a little bit more about the Women's Leadership Academy, but before we jump into that, perhaps you could provide our listeners a little bit of a backstory on your personal and business journey to date.
Amy: Absolutely. I would love to. But before, a fun fact, one of my very good friends just had a baby, literally an hour ago and named the baby Dane. Isn't that fun?
Dane: Great. She's clearly got great taste.
Amy: Clearly. Clearly it's a family name and so Dane. I was like,"That's so odd. What are the odds of that?"
Dane: Absolutely. Absolutely zero.
Amy: Right? It's not many. Yeah. My background, I come from Texas. I was born and raised in Houston, not many actual native Houstonians. Middle child, two brothers. I went to a small state school in Texas. I was a hospitality undergrad. When I graduated from college, my dream was to work at the happiest place on earth. So, I went and worked for Walt Disney and I absolutely loved it. And then I thought my dream was to work on a cruise line, a cruise ship, Julie, from The Love Boat. I had all the great visions. So, I applied and got hired and I went, and it is not a dream job by the way, just FYI. If you ever take a cruise, it is very, very hard work.
Dane: Have some empathy for the works on board.
Amy: Oh my gosh. I love people and I had a really hard time liking people working on a cruise ship. It was really hard. It's hard work, so yes, have some empathy. Overtime starts at 70 hours a week, by the way. It's a whole podcast interview. Unfortunately, I literally broke my leg dancing on the ship. I think I was leading the funky fish, the YMCA. I did all the cruise staff activities. I was cruise stuff. I came back home to Texas and I really honestly had a quarter life crisis. I was 24. I was like," Where do I want to go? What do I want to do?" I didn't really have a career path at that moment. I wasn't married, no potential, so I really did. I found a book and it was called, Do What You Are. It was an introduction to personalities, so Myers- Briggs. I read it and I just became fascinated with Myers- Briggs. And I was like, oh wow, this explains so much. The extroversion and intuition and sensing. I realized that I wanted to go back to grad school. I applied and went back to grad school in Houston. Conrad Hilton started a college, his university there. It's an incredible hospitality program. I went back and I found my passion in human resources, really understanding how people work together. I was fascinated by the recruitment process and the training and development. I think, I really appreciated, coming from Walt Disney. Disney does an incredible job with their training of their people, really understanding the culture and the vision and the mission. I liked that and I had an incredible HR professor in grad school. That is how I got my HR roots and I was hired from in Houston to New Orleans. It was in 2006. You might not remember because, but in 2005 was when New Orleans was hit by Katrina. I came in 2006, which I ended up not even, it was not a desire. Many people came back to rebuild the city, but I just came, but I really did get to help rebuild the city. I started with Hilton and then I ended up opening the Roosevelt Hotel, which is a Waldorf Astoria Hotel that Conrad Hilton actually bought, I think in 1949. I was able to open up the Roosevelt I helped hire 504 employees.
Dane: That's a big team.
Amy: It's a big team. I did all the orientation and training and it was incredible. I got married and yeah, do you want me to keep going? I feel like I'm rambling.
Dane: Mo, you're rolling. You're absolutely rolling and it's good to give me some context, and obviously the listeners, some context as we go deeper into where you are now and how you're seeing the changes in teamwork and the future of teamwork. You get to the Roosevelt, that's a very high- end Waldorf Property, a lot of team to onboard and a very new culture to build. That's a grind and now, family life comes along. Where does that sort of-
Amy: Now, the family life comes along. Honestly, it was really fascinating because I got to help develop a brand. At the time the Waldorf Astoria Hotel and Resorts did not exist. When I was working with Hilton and I got to help create it, which was incredible. They flew us all to Beverly Hills. We got to stay at the Beverly Hills Hotel.
Dane: That sounds good.
Amy: Yes. Although I had known about personality, this is a really funny story. I was engaged at the time. We were opening the hotel, I was engaged at the time and I went through a personality program called Emergenetics. This was another deep dive in your personality. I remember getting my Emergenetics. And then I remember reading all about myself and then the instructor, at that time, I had this eye- opening moment that, oh my gosh, I'm about to marry my complete opposite. My husband is completely opposite. I was all a yellow, red, so conceptual and social. My husband is an engineer. He's blue and analytical and structured. I had this brief panic and I don't know if I started crying, but I had a total panic moment, a meltdown of am I making a mistake? I just remember the instructor was so incredibly kind, but she's like," No. Actually, diversity and differences attract, but you do have to learn how to work together and respect each other and really leverage the differences or you do build resentment." Resentment and the differences. Honestly, I was like,"Okay, I'm ready for a challenge." I guess I was naive. Honestly, Philip and I, my husband and I have been married for 13 years and we do, our marriage is very, we're very different still and we communicate very differently. It's not easy. I will be the first, we're different, but we do better each other, I think. Yeah.
Dane: It's funny how work can inform, improve and at times detract from our relationships at home. We're part of teams at work and we become a role, we become a person, we get this affirmation that, hey, I'm pretty good at this. And then we go home to a different team because our families are a team. I'm sure you've got it. I'm sure a lot of other families have had it. But when you get home and you try the work voice out, or you forget that your role in the team at home is not the same as your role at team at work.
Amy: Yes. Yes it is. It's so true. I have done many classes on Myers- Briggs and personality, but I have never done a class and I've done countless, without somebody coming up to ask me, can you give this to my partner? How does somebody, I need to know more information because once you learn, it is fascinating stuff. I'm an extrovert. My husband's an introvert. Everything about us is different, but it's still hard to, and I'm a professional and I know. I know why we're not seeing eye to eye. I opened and I was a training and development manager. I ended up, I wanted to apply to be an HR director, which hat's off to all the HR professionals out there at the moment. They're navigating everything. I just-
Dane: So much change.
Amy: Right. Oh, my goodness. But I thought I wanted to be an HR director, which again, my personality is not the best in HR. You really do have a lot of heavy conversations and you have to terminate a lot of people. It just was terrible but I did love working. I had my daughter in 2013. She's now eight, but I had Ava. Honestly, my return back to work was really difficult. It was an eye- opening experience because I was in HR. I was used to being able to give people resources and to help, but nothing existed. Nothing was there to help me. It was like I was on an island all by myself. Nobody talked about how hard it was. Nobody talked about, oh my gosh, breastfeeding is a full- time job. It really is. It was a really traumatizing time. But also, I had requested to work from home two days a week and then be in the office three days, which remote work was just like, oh my gosh, mind blowing back then. But it ended up being like, no, we need you here full time. I ended up saying," I can't do this. I cannot be here full- time. I'm going to leave." I started consulting and opened up my own training business, which I never ever thought I would be a business owner or be an entrepreneur, but I did, which was a scary, big leap. But also, from my personal traumatizing experience returning back to work, I wanted to work or...
Dane: When it comes to that trauma, returning to work and then you say, okay, it's not going to work like this. I'm going to start my own business. In the consulting and training business were you still focusing primarily on the hospitality world or did you start broadening out?
Amy: Good question. Good question. I actually did a wide variety of industry. I did oil and gas and real estate. My first job was with a large real estate company, doing team building and leadership training. I joined a women's business association, which really, I think my first step into learning or growing an appreciation for working with women and honestly just changed my life. I think that I took my frustration and my pain and I wanted to use it for purpose.
Dane: You channeled it.
Amy: I did. I wanted to channel it because mean my experience was so hard, but honestly, Dane, one of my bosses at the time told me," I'm really sorry, but I just don't think you can be a good mother and have a successful career at the same time. I just-"
Dane: They said that?
Amy: Yes, verbatim.
Dane: That's ridiculous.
Amy: Pregnancy discrimination and women face it on a daily basis. This is my story that sounds, oh my gosh, how terrible. But that happens all the time. Even benevolent discrimination, which I got really into learning about discrimination, and for women and all the struggles that we face, but benevolent discrimination happens all the time. Like, oh, you don't want this job. You're about to have a baby or don't give her that, you need to be home with your kids. There's a lot that happens and we don't even as women realize sometimes, but mine was so hard and especially just having a daughter. I'm like," I want to change this script for her. I can't do anything about it for now, but I want 12 months for a maternity leave or I want you to be able to know that you can go to college, achieve your dreams, be an engineer, be an architect. But then when you have a baby society and your company is going to support you. We shouldn't have to pick one or the other." So, I got really passionate about women's rights and just working with women and then also Equal Pay Day and equal pay. How I became really involved with equal pay is, from being an HR director, I had countless salary negotiation conversation. Honestly, it was always the woman that would not be playing hardball. A personal experience I had, I helped somebody get a job, a former or actual employee of mine. I helped her get a job. She called me up after she got the job and she called me and she's like," Oh my gosh." And she's crying. I was like," What is going on?" She's like, they offered me, let's just say it was$ 50, 000. I was like,"Okay." She's like," But Amy, I know that the salary pay was 60, but they only offered me 50." I was like," What did you put on your salary request?" She's like," I put 45." 45, I was like," But the disconnect." I was like," You're lucky they gave you 50 because you discounted yourself. If you're willing to take it, a company's not, this is business. You have to make profit." Her experiences happens all the time, of women... and actually, there's a book it's called Women Don't Ask. The research shows that men, when you talk about a metaphor and you describe, think about what negotiation is. Men reference, it's like playing a game and women it's like going to the dentist.
Dane: Oh wow. I hate going to the dentist.
Amy: I didn't want to say it, but I absolutely hate it too. It's terrible. I just got mad. Again, I try to use energy and energy for good. It's like, how can we change this narrative? What can we do? So, I created an Equal Pay Day event with my women's business association on National Equal Pay Day, International Equal Pay Day. We had an Equal Pay Day speaker. And then we had mock negotiation exercises, where you had discussed salary. It ended up becoming a really popular event. In the next couple years, it's raised thousands of dollars' worth of scholarship. I got to be on the news a couple times for it. Just good stuff. I even spoke at the Louisiana legislative session on Equal Pay Day, but how I was connected with my current job, Loyola is they were looking to grow programs and I served on the board, an educational board. They were like, oh, let's meet. I met and I actually came because I wanted them to host the Equal Pay Day event.
Dane: Oh, that's a good reason to turn up.
Amy: Great. I was like,"This type of information. We have all these women, we have 50 women, business women in the community. We would love to come in and teach negotiation skills to your graduating seniors. And to be able to give them this confidence and encouragement." But during that initial meeting, and this was back in 2018, so almost five years ago, Loyola University in New Orleans had just hired its first female president and Jesuit lay person. And her name was president Tania Tetlow. It just was really good energy and momentum. I just said, randomly," Loyola should create a women's leadership academy. There's a need. Women want to be in a space to grow and connect. We really need this." It was this little passing thought. I guess the thought started to gain some, yes, because the next week I got a survey from the woman I had a meeting with about, they were wanting to explore if there was a need for this. I can't remember the exact numbers, but I think she sent it to 30 women or whoever. And then it was like 300 people responding because everybody was forwarding it. They're like, oh my gosh. So, It was-
Dane: That's fantastic.
Amy: 300 people responded. And then the senior leadership team at Loyola, they were like, okay, there is a need, let's create it. I don't know if you know anything about academia or you're, yeah-
Dane: A little bit.
Amy: You do. You're professors, yeah I forgot. But it's a slow- moving entity. But when you have the president of the university supporting an initiative, it's green lit.
Dane: It gets moving.
Amy: It got moving. And then it really picked up momentum so fast. In January, when applications opened, our goal was 40 women. We had 40 women apply overnight. It was bananas. They pay the tuition and then we're like, oh my gosh this is happening. It was for professional women, executive women. We've had a judge. We've had a New Orleans police department sergeant come in. We've had engineers. We've had CEOs. We've had incredible, amazing women, but a lot of them are at the top of their... they're the only woman at the table in their prospective company. They just need more connection. They want to feel more, in an environment where they get support. I love busting the myth that women don't, we don't like to compete, we actually like to collaborate. We like to support each other. We like to encourage each other. So, I think that is not the truth because from what I have seen of women coming together, wanting to give back, wanting to bring women up has just been awe inspiring. We started cohort one or our class one, and now we are in the fourth year.
Dane: Fantastic.
Amy: I was hired as a program facilitator, but I have not gone away and I just keep yelling. There's more and more and more that we can do. I've moved into the program manager role. I'm getting to help manage the program. We're looking at funders and we're looking to partner with the college, the Women's Resource Center and maybe create a big women's leadership institute, just bigger.
Dane: That's fantastic. Yeah. That's exciting and it is so needed. It's interesting what you just said there about perhaps women not wanting to compete and go out and do the bravado, the YPO, the young president's associations and that type of staff. And actually, wanting to collaborate, wanting to learn. There's clearly a gap. There's a vacuum there, and we need to create more of these types of programs. It's not going to just be for women, but I think we're going to see lots of other demographics popping up in the workforce, particularly in the future. But I think starting with women's a great place, particularly, as you said, those women that are somewhat alone, leading the top of their organizations, not having a lot of peers in the industry as we continue to drive equal pay and better diversity in the workplace.
Amy: Right. For sure.
Dane: Tell me about what that means as far as the team. Do you find that the women that come through in your cohort are processing some of their day- to- day work issues while they're on the course? Is it very interactive? Are they doing more book learning and then getting together socially to do other things? How do they form teams within the program?
Amy: As a trainer, you have to craft these things. You have to, if you don't force somebody to do it, they're not going to do it. Our Women's Leadership Academy, the program is 10 months and it's a full day, once a month on campus. It's broken down, we have a keynote speaker in the morning, so typically a high- profile speaker. We've utilized some of our Loyola professors come in, and then we do break them into small groups. We utilize the Myers- Briggs instrument because it was created by two women. It's a Women's Leadership Academy and-
Dane: Why not?
Amy: Obviously. We utilize Myers- Briggs. We use the personal impact report, which goes through your team style, your decision- making style, communication, conflict resolution, stress management, change approach, and your overall leadership style. Each month has a theme. We also give them an individual growth strategy where you have to assess, where am I right now? What skills do I want to build? What goals? Because I think everybody who joins the program, they want something. Many of them are looking to be promoted, or they're also searching, what's my next step. They're all seeking something. It's a lot of helping the woman to identify what they want and then helping them get there. We place them with a mentor. Each woman gets a mentor, which it's really, really hard to place when you have... I mean, we had an elected judge and we had to find the judge, a mentor. I'm like," This is really hard."
Dane: Yeah. I bet.
Amy: It's tricky. Everybody is just incredible, but we do place them with a mentor. And then we also break them into small groups. The small groups are based on different personality styles.
Dane: So, you try to create a bit of diversity of style within those work groups.
Amy: Yes, yes, yes. Diversity is huge. It's very important to me. Our cohort is extremely diverse. Not only in ethnicity. We're 50% white, 30% African American, 10% Hispanic and Asian, and then 3%. It's a very diverse group. Our ages ranged from 25 to 62. Also, we have all different occupations and industries. So, being able to hear as a surgeon, a surgeon, hear from somebody in the education realm and our fundraiser, and so have all these unique perspectives. But then also, the experience of myself as a white woman is extremely different from somebody, as a Black woman. We have those conversations. We talk about that very openly. I have a different experience than you. We have to be aware and we can't just sugar coat it or walk around it because then real change is not happening. One of the things, we're working and looking on how do we create maybe a diversity equity inclusion summit, where it's not just checking that box of, oh, we have diversity, but how do we really, really make it impactful and inclusive and make it change? A lot of times I think, and this comes from HR, compliance world, I understand that. We check the box, oh, I hired my demographics box judge, but that's not the end. We're looking to dig deeper, but we do force the differences. And that's the diversity, which is so amazing to understand. If I put a whole table of extroverts together, they blah, blah, blah, blah, but if you put three extroverts and three introverts and then they all have different personality styles, the conversation just goes much deeper because you're like, wow, I never thought about that. I think that creativity comes from difference in thought and that is personality type. Also, personality type is the number one conflict in the workplace. Differences in personality is huge and having these conversations like, you're butting heads because you have a different personality. As I mentioned, you have to learn to appreciate, but we are all human and we like our own personal personalities best. That's just nature, but we do have to learn our own gifts. And then also, where we need help.
Dane: It's funny on the needing help sometimes. I listened to a book the other day on a drive. My wife was pushing me to read The Five Love Languages. I don't know if you've come across that. There's a version of that for business too. My biggest takeaway from that is that I'll often walk into a meeting or a team environment thinking about my style, but I'm not thinking about their style and what they value. So, going in and creating an environment that allows those other individuals, particularly those diverse individuals in the group, to feel comfortable to make their contribution. There's both art and science to that but there's, like you said earlier about being a facilitator, you need to make that happen. It won't just happen organically.
Amy: No, it does not. We talk a lot about this in women's leadership, but I think it's your job as the leader and as the person to be able to adapt and you have to adapt because they're not going to adapt to you. Some people are like, I'm not being authentic. This is who I am. But if you're managing and you're a leader of a team, you have to understand that, okay, maybe you don't need the warm and fuzzies good morning, but they do. If you're going to want to lead them and get the best out of them, you have to customize. That's that whole customer service facing of the platinum rule. Have you ever heard the platinum rule?
Dane: No, I haven't. Tell me more of that.
Amy: A customer service. The golden rule. Do you know what the golden rule is?
Dane: No.
Amy: You don't know about the golden rule?
Dane: Customer service, I passed over that one.
Amy: Oh my gosh. You never heard the golden rule, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Dane: Oh, I've heard of that rule, but I didn't know it's called the golden rule.
Amy: Yes. That's the golden rule. It's a whole book, The Golden... Yes. The golden rule, do unto others as you would have them do to you, but there's a book and it was written and it's called The Platinum Book and it's a whole mindset of, do unto others as they would have, their preference. Thinking about how they would want.
Dane: Which is exactly what that Five Love Languages book says as well.
Amy: 100%, I love that your wife made you do that. Did you take the quiz and do the...
Dane: I did. Yeah. Yeah.
Amy: What is your love language?
Dane: I had two, one was physical touch and the other was quality time.
Amy: Okay. Was your wife different or the same?
Dane: Different. It was words of affirmation and quality time.
Amy: Okay. You have quality time. That's good. You just need to tell her nice things every day.
Dane: That's right.
Amy: Just nice things.
Dane: Yeah stop being...
Amy: Tell her, you're so pretty. I love you every day. Every day.
Dane: That's it.
Amy: Mine is words of affirmation too. But my husband's like," I don't care. I'm not reading that book and I'm not like you."
Dane: The business version of the book's exactly the same. It's like, your customer might be more about words of affirmation and you're talking to them about how well they've done, how well their business is doing. Where another one might be quality time, they don't want you to be just saying stuff about how well they're doing. They want you to go out and really spend time getting to know them and appreciate the challenges that they've got. It is an interesting approach. I'm going to keep the platinum rule locked up here
Amy: For sure. It is being able to relate to somebody and that's that whole emotional intelligence piece, of being able to read and pick up on feelings and...
Dane: You just... oh, you're back.
Amy: Did I just lose electricity? We live in New Orleans.
Dane: It can all happen. When you think about those teams then, so you used a great word about forcing the difference. How often do you see, you've had a few cohorts right now. How often do you see your course participants go back to their businesses and start forcing the difference. Start using some of the personality profiling in their teams. Is there a story or a discourse coming back from that?
Amy: Yeah, no, actually, quite often. Quite often, women that have taken the program, they want to bring it back to their teams. A lot of the material that we do, people want to bring it back because it's just such a powerful information to... the more you know about yourself, the better you can control. I always say, you cannot change or control anybody else, but you can control yourself and learn. The more how to control yourself, you can relate to others. But I think all the time, people are going back. Also, we do a book club as well. We did a Brené Brown book club.
Dane: I love her. She's great.
Amy: When we did Dare to Lead, we read the book and that was in our book club. But the next thing I know is, they're taking it back to their teams and they're making them read the book and they're doing all this. It's great.
Dane: That's really good.
Amy: I'm sorry. The learning being transferred back.
Dane: Yeah. I go to a group called Vistage, used to be called The Executive Connection. We sit with a dozen to 15 other company presidents, CEOs, and similar to what your program sounds like. We'll have an outside speaker come in and we let them process some issues., do some profiles, whether it's... I haven't done Myers- Briggs, but it's a Burkman or a disk or any number of other profiles. We really talk about that. I think my team get a little bit nervous because after my Vistage meeting, I always come back and I'm like," Oh, we just did this great exercise. We had this great speaker and I really want you to try it." It's important to have that time when you're a leader and you've got a team that you're managing, it's easy to get buried in the day job. But to have that time to step away from your business, get the perspective of other people in other roles, other businesses, really digest whatever material you're covering. There's a little bit more clarity, a little bit more certainty about how you take that back to the team. I think that's a really good process. I think more learning, corporate learning, corporate development should be delivered that way because it's, you're not getting hit over the head with a sledge hammer doing six weeks of straight classes and then forgetting it all really quickly because you can't really take the time to absorb each piece.
Amy: For sure. I have heard a big takeaway is, the women are able to come once a month and we say, no phones, clear your calendar, you've got to commit. If you were accepted in the program, we need you here. For them to have that opportunity to really dig in and self- reflect and give themself that time, because you're right, if you don't carve out that time and make it intentional, then it never happens. We so often don't do those big rocks because we're so busy putting out the tiny fires, but I mean that training, that professional development is so important that you need to carve out that time. Especially, with women having so many responsibilities and hats that we wear, that you don't get to really stop and be like, oh hey, what are my boundaries? How can I fill my cup again and really be my best me? That part has been great, to be able to have that time. Even coming, sorry, I was going to say even coming back from my experience way back when I was a trainer and working, it was like pulling teeth, Dane, to get people to come to the training. They were required, but they were like, oh, I don't have time. I don't have time. Everything's so busy. But if you don't make time, it won't happen. You have to make the time, especially for professional development, to stop, to reflect, to think, to encourage, to get inspired. And...
Dane: It takes a bit of muscle memory, but 10 months in I'm sure they're sad to be finishing.
Amy: Yeah, they are. They are so sad. Right now, we have 123 alumni and one of our women came up and they're like," Can I create an alumni board?" I was like," Of course, you can." Now, we're building an alumni board and they'll help continue to grow because we really are at such a growth phase at this moment with the academy. And looking really to partner with then the women's resource center to really build out, potentially, the women's leadership Institute, so we can provide more programs. We can expand. We want to do an online program so women all over the globe can do it. There's a lot of potential being able to grow, needed programs.
Dane: Absolutely. Is there anything that your program is, or your participants are starting to do as they think the future and they think grassroots? You talked about it earlier. How do you position Ava to have the confidence that she can go to college and be an architect, an engineer or whatever else? Is there anything that these cohorts of women in leadership roles are doing back into the community to create more education, more pull through for the future female talent?
Amy: Yeah. No, great question. Since we're now going... this is the fourth year and we're going into the fifth year. With my new role as the program manager, I really pitch that as, I want to build a pipeline, because I'm a girl scout troop leader too, just throw that out there. I have a vest and everything, but our girl scout, there's a badge that the girls can earn. I said," But we have the entity. We need to be reaching out and pulling up and doing a leadership seminar." Also, I participate in Girls on the Run, that is another mind empowerment program for little girls. That is one of my focuses this year, is to really how do we connect all the dots? I just got off the phone or had a call this morning with the... Her name is Patricia and she runs the Women's Resource Center at Loyola. We're looking at how can we start combining these programs, just combining our effort, and so really collaborating. She's actually taking the program right now. And she's like,"This is amazing." I was like," It is." We really should be collaborating and pulling our resources together to start going after funding and grants that can really support, not women right now, but the future and the legacies. And how do we even tap down to elementary school girls?
Dane: And I think-
Amy: That is a huge focus for me.
Dane: I think that's something that, I've always felt that people in leadership roles, not only have their personal balance sheet, but they've got the business balance sheet and the business assets and operations to leverage because they're in a leadership role. So, it could be something as simple as going in and doing some education of what careers for women are in that particular domain. It could be creating internships, apprenticeships, returnships. There's a lot of return- to- work moms that are still in the early stages of their careers or moms in the later stage in their careers that are looking to pivot and change directions. Technology keeps changing. I find that fascinating. Certainly, with my Vistage group, when you get a group of leaders together and you get them thinking about the change that they're capable of making, it's a unique opportunity. It's not just their learning, it's their motivation and drive.
Amy: For sure. For sure. Even women, I think the flexibility of the remote work is so huge. I think flexibility equals freedom so much because if you have an engaged employee, they are engaged all the time. I have some of my best ideas while taking a shower or shampooing my hair. I'm like," Yes, that's so brilliant." But I have the flexibility to be able to have freedom that I can be able to pick my daughter up from carpool or take an active role being the parent, mom and not feel bad about that. The flexibility is so nice. My husband works for a major company and he has flexibility as well. He's only in the office two days a week and it's just so great having the family, just seeing him more and him being able," Hey, I'm going to walk Ava to school today." I'm like," Yes." That only happens once a month, it's not like...
Dane: But it's still once a month.
Amy: It's the freedom and being able to work remotely is really great.
Dane: I think it's huge. On remote work, there's a lot of conversation out there right now and people are taking different positions on remote work, hybrid work, how does that impact teams? I've seen very drastic positions like, Musk coming out and saying," You can work from home as much you like, as long as you do 40 in the office." I saw a post on LinkedIn the other day that said," If you only want to work remote, get ready for your job to be offshored, because why do they need you here?" There's a lot of people that are very against remote. I'm quite for, and I think hybrid's a good mix, but how are you seeing some of your program members and other businesses that you consult with in the community tackling this hybrid work environment and specifically when it comes to culture and team culture and team connectedness, supporting each other? Are there any themes that you're seeing emerge?
Amy: Funny that you asked that. One of my WLA alumni members, she's about to serve on the board. She just sent me an article. I'll have to forward it to you, about workplace culture for remote teams. And I was like, interesting is this would be a great, we do additional webinars or lunch and learns, continuing ed for our alumni, like, oh, this would be great because I think now we are past the whole COVID trauma. We've got to figure out how to form this new dynamic. I don't think, it's not one way or the highway. Obviously, we have learned that we have the capacity to work anywhere. I do think that there should be a mix or figuring this out, but this is the conversation. I don't think we can go back 100% to, you're in the office, I'm going to handcuff you to the desk. Because a lot of times, there was low productivity. You just being in the office, does not ensure that you are working.
Dane: All presenteeism. Yeah.
Amy: No. I had a job one time that it was literally required, we were in the office every day from eight to six. I probably did four hours of work a day, and then the rest I was shopping or doing a Starbucks run or taking a long lunch. Even coming from an HR standpoint, there would be so much less office drama, if people only had to be in the office for three hours and then get to go home.
Dane: Turn up and do their real work. Yeah.
Amy: Right. There's a lot that we, I think that, that element of control, we want to be able to control like, oh I see you working and that's micromanaging. I have worked from home for eight years and I personally love working from home. I have ADD, so I'm distracted with people. I can't not talk to people. So, I am really able to focus and I like to... and I'm an extrovert, but I like quietness. I love silent time. I love to work and silence, which is, I know, so strange. I do better working from home. When COVID hit, obviously that was not work from home.
Dane: No, that was...
Amy: That was called survival. I'm pretty sure I threw a stapler at somebody in my family. It was really tough times. And homeschooling, that was all terrible, but I do, so I don't recommend it, but we've got to figure out, and like I said, I'm so glad I'm not the person figuring this out. No offense, because there is battles and you're going to have people stepping on the... they're going to fight. However, if you stay on this side and you fight, this is my way, then you're missing the opportunity to be like, okay, let's bring in the, let's respect. We can do both.
Dane: I think people will ultimately opt into certain career paths, certain organizations, based on how they handle that work dynamic and how they continue to keep teams coming together. Whether that's one day, a week of collaborative meetings, whether it's multiple days, whether they're doing team building on Zoom. There's all sorts of different ways for it to happen. Doing retreats. I know some of the tech businesses will sort of say, hey, we're all going to go into this city and work for a week together and drive a whole lot of projects. They generally have a bit more money to throw around too.
Amy: I personally like being on a team. I love it. I had my own business and I enjoy working with other people. I like the collaboration and I have a home office, but they're going to put a desk so I can come up and have a desk. But then I'm like," Wait. That makes me nervous. I'm going to have to get dressed every day. Maybe we should just go away with business attire. We don't care. Just show up. Wear your workout clothes. Only get dressed for client meetings or something." There's a lot that we are having to transform.
Dane: I'm really hopeful for these future augmented reality glasses where we can all just wear the most comfortable clothes that we want. And then we just press a button that says, make this look like a suit or make this look like smart casuals, jacket and jeans but it's still just the same comfy clothes.
Amy: Yes. Like the jets. Yes. Yes. That would be so nice.
Dane: That would make it way easier.
Amy: I know.
Dane: Oh, definitely.
Amy: I was all dressed the other day and Philip came out. He's like," Why are you dressed up?" I was like," Oh, I have an interview." And he's like," oh, this is so different." I'm like," Whatever."
Dane: I know.
Amy: It is nice. It is nice. I'm not going to lie. But it's also, I don't know that dynamic, they're having it obviously, all over trying to figure this out.
Dane: And some people, it's not healthy. Some people can't work from home, For other people, it's not healthy because they don't have the space or there's five kids running around or I've got a sick uncle or mother to look after, the dogs, you name it. There's all sorts of reasons why working from home won't work for everyone. I think it's interesting. I think all of our leaders need to be considering where their people are at and then how to get the most out of their people and their teams. Like you said earlier, the platinum rule, how do they want to be treated and how do I make that work in a way that I can scale and be consistent with. I think that's an interesting piece for teamwork in the future, but I've got a lot of hopes that we continue to make progress and solve a lot of these problems as we go.
Amy: Yes. Yes. For sure.
Dane: We've touched on some really cool topics. It felt like there were a few topics that we could have just done a whole show and discussion on there today. I'd love to come back and talk more about equal pay. I think that would be a great story. A great education piece. I know Casey Brown, who's one of my favorite speakers on pricing. She did a Ted Talk on women asking for what they're worth. They're not going to give it to you, you're going to have to ask for it, to get comfortable asking. I thought that was a fantastic Ted Talk that she did. We talked about forcing difference and meetings, knowing personalities, the importance of intentionality. As a training professional, I love the fact that you agree that intentionality and really setting that time aside is very important for our leaders, particularly our female leaders in the world of work, because most of those, whether they're a mom, a daughter, a niece, a wife-
Amy: They're the caretakers.
Dane: The data still shows that they still take on more of the burden at home. And in home life.
Amy: 2.5 times more.
Dane: 2. 5, that's more than I thought. Yeah. So, there's just so much good stuff to be getting into there. If anyone wants to reach out to you to talk about any of these topics or learn more about the women's leadership academy at Loyola in New Orleans, what's the best way for them to find you?
Amy: Loyola University. I'm happy to share my email address or give the website.
Dane: Sure. What's the easiest?
Amy: My actual email is aklandry @ loyno. edu.
Dane: Great.
Amy: The website is loyola. edu. You can go to professional, I think it's professional and continuing studies, but yes, if anybody wants to donate to the women's leadership institute that we're growing to change the world and just, not take over the world, but just make it a better place for all of us. We're working on that, so hopefully this time next year we'll be making some big progress and some changes, but yeah.
Dane: No, that's really exciting. That's exciting. I look forward to staying in touch and definitely supporting the program and picking your brain on a few of these ideas as we run into a few of those challenges with our customers and our own businesses too.
Amy: I would love that. Thank you. Thank you for having me. This was really fun and I'm glad that technology and the weather, I was a little nervous that I was going to lose electricity, so I'm glad that...
Dane: I know. We've had a little bit of a run with the technology, but I'll let you know when I'm in New Orleans next and we'll make sure to catch up.
Amy: Yes. Please do. I would love it, to get together. Thank you.
Dane: Awesome.
Amy: Oh, good.
Dane: Thanks, Amy.
DESCRIPTION
On today's episode of The Future of Teamwork, host and HUDDL3 Group CEO Dane Groeneveld talks with Amy Landry about her role as Loyola's Program Manager for the Women's Leadership Academy. Amy covers her career, what brought her to Loyola, and what it has been like to be a working mother facing gender discrimination. During their conversation, Dane and Amy discuss their experiences leading teams and cultivating values that allow them to lead more authentically.